Hey CG - thanks for taking all the time to document this - inpressive. I knew he came being schooled by Newsome or at least expsoed to him all those years. However, in today's NFL it doesnt take 5 years (counting next year) to build at least a playoff team. Just blowing two number 1 picks one of them the second overall pick should get hi…
Hey CG - thanks for taking all the time to document this - inpressive. I knew he came being schooled by Newsome or at least expsoed to him all those years. However, in today's NFL it doesnt take 5 years (counting next year) to build at least a playoff team. Just blowing two number 1 picks one of them the second overall pick should get him fired. Becton is a total bust he couldnt have done his homework on that one. The punter he wont get off of. Ashton Davis ? He has tried to build a offensive line 4 straight years and has failed very year. There is nothing for him to build on top of there as his drafting is so bad. Time to bring in someone else in and all ass no gas can go with him.
went digging a little deeper on Newsome, cause he sure didn't reach elite GM status until starting his 5th year at the helm. So I took a look at the Ravens drafts in 1996 through to 2000 (five years)
1999 Chris McAlister DB (to 2009, 26 int), Brandon Stokely WR (4R, to 2013, 397Rec/5339 yds/39 TD)
2000 Jamal Lewis (10.6k RushYds 4.17 avg, 58TD; 221Rec 1879yds, 4TD); Travis Taylor WR (312rec 4017yds 22TD) and in the 6R find Adalius Thomas LB (to 2009, 411 soloTack, 7int, 53sks)
the '96 draft was special; Simeon Rice (122 career sacks 403 solo tackles) and Marvin Harrison (HoF) were also first rounders. The Jets also got Ray Mickens 3R and Marcus Coleman 5R, both players who I liked alot, contributors, but in the 2nd round (the hated, cursed round for us...) the Jets took Alex Van Dyke who played 5 years and had 26 recept for 219 yards, while 4 slots later a guy named Amani Toomer (668 rec/9497 yds/54 TD) played until 2008 was picked by our crosstown relatives.
by comparison (groan...) here are Jets drafts in those years, with what-might-have-beens noted:
1996 Keyshawn Johnson
1997 James Farrior LB (went to Pitt, won SB there) and a Gem in the 7th round, Jason Ferguson, who like a Jason Fabini (4R, 1998 draft) turned into a late round-NFL Stud who found success in Parcells-coached NYJets
1998 see Jason Fabini above, no 1R or 2R picks (the 1R was forfeit to NE iirc, for Parcells)
1999 Randy Thomas (2R later went to Wash)
2000 this was the Shaun Ellis, Jonathan Abraham, Chad Pennington, Anthony Becht and Laveranues Coles (3R) draft. The "Parcells" draft.
A point about Newsome. Even in his first few years, when the Ravens weren't very good, he drafted some spectacularly great and many good players. I say, Ditto to Douglas although Joe's work is not yet at the level of an Ozzie. But it's getting there I think, and I think he's showing perserverance and sticking to the plan like he learned with Ozzie.
Comparison: Douglas' stud picks: Gardner, Wilson, Hall, Johnson II. Very good picks: Mitchell (late round rough gem), Clemons (yeah Deebo!!!).
Head scratcher picks: in 2000 draft, taking Becton over Wirfs (2 spots later to TB) - well, more a risk than a head scratcher; Becton's tape showed a beast, no injury history... and Mekhi played like a beast in his rookie year. Using 20/20 hindsight, i'd say it's best to stay away from 390# linemen - the NFL competition where even a bench rider is better than 99% of what he faced in college and the toll of a 17 game season with that much weight, well we see the injury history on that.
Shit/give them a chance see what they got picks: 2020 draft: Ashtyn Davis S (3R, pick 68) when Brandon Jones S (3R pick 70, to MIA - 115 soloTack, 8sks) was there. And my personal, WTF was he thinking? pick - Zabari Zuniga (3R pick 79 for 6 soloTack) when a stud LB named Alex Highsmith (3R pick 102 to PITT - 108 soloTack, 20sks) was still there. Both of these were really big fails, Douglas takes the blame on this.
A give'em a chance pick in the 2020 draft that worked out well: Bryce Hall - 5R, 99soloTack who dropped because of injury in college, did pretty good for us.
Other picks still not completely rated: Mims (2R)
the 2021 and 2022 drafts speak for themselves: Zach Wilson - headed for the Psych Ward, we'll see if he's a bust after his next NFL stop, but he's done here in NY. Aside from that blazing headache of a realization, there are AVT (superpower stud OLine), Elijah Moore (a mini-Steve Smith if Lafleur can figure out how to use him on quick slants into the middle 8-20yard range of the defensive backfield), Carter Prime & Carter Squared; and Brandin Echols who has turned into a Pretty. Good. Slot cover guy.
The 2022 draft will go down, hopefully, as a better draft than the 2000 where Parcells chose such great players (Shaun Ellis is my favorite; his Jersey is draped over the passenger seat of my 2013 Mustang GT Convertible - so EVERYBODY can SEE IT when I drive by :-)
Final note, since i've been chatting GM all this time. Outside of Elijah Moore and AVT who were definitely 1st round talent, the other guys, along with the team already present, have been developed by Saleh. He deserves great credit for this. One of the things he said last year which sticks with me, when he was talking about young later round draft picks, and i'm paraphrasing him, "... these guys whether #1 picks or 6th, 7th rounders, are all the best of the best. World class athletes. The main difference between why a guy is picked 1st and why he's picked in later rounds? Reps. Number of reps. You give these guys the reps to learn and they will get better. Some faster than others, but they will all get better. Because they're professional athletes. "
So yeah, I'd give Saleh the room to himself grow and make needed changes on the coaching staff. Like getting a more experienced QB coach. Like telling Ulbrich to not sit on his dominant front four tactic and instead go a little crazy/unpredictable by sending 5 or 6 guys in every once in a while - make the opposing O-coord shit his own pants once a while and not be sure of just what the Jets D is going to do.
Anyways enough, it's always great chatting with my fellow Jets fans. When I go to the games and look up around the stands, and see all my folks in green and white, I always smile like a kid - it's a great feeling.
good points Steve - what i can add is that even when you're a very good management type, it's still very difficult to get the right combo of superior talent, longevity/health, coaching together into winning packages. Newsome's first four years as a manager? 1996 - 1999, losing records every year but 1999, where they finished .500 (Ted Marchibroda was the coach b4 Billick).
I do agree on AShton Davis, I really liked Pinnock better. And I give him, personal opinion here, 2 years on the OLine rebuild, as that is when he was able to draft OLinemen; the first year he inherited Macagnan/Gase dungpiles.
The Punter? Yeah, he's gotta go; overall average dudn't matter much when you lay out a couple of game killing stinkers every week.
Hey CG - thanks for taking all the time to document this - inpressive. I knew he came being schooled by Newsome or at least expsoed to him all those years. However, in today's NFL it doesnt take 5 years (counting next year) to build at least a playoff team. Just blowing two number 1 picks one of them the second overall pick should get him fired. Becton is a total bust he couldnt have done his homework on that one. The punter he wont get off of. Ashton Davis ? He has tried to build a offensive line 4 straight years and has failed very year. There is nothing for him to build on top of there as his drafting is so bad. Time to bring in someone else in and all ass no gas can go with him.
hey Steve,
went digging a little deeper on Newsome, cause he sure didn't reach elite GM status until starting his 5th year at the helm. So I took a look at the Ravens drafts in 1996 through to 2000 (five years)
Player(s) drafted who turned out to be studs:
1996 Ray Lewis (HoF); Jonathan Ogden (HoF)
1997 Peter Boulware LB (DROY 1997); Jamie Sharper LB (to 2005, 644 sTac, 25.5 sks)
1998 no one that stuck
1999 Chris McAlister DB (to 2009, 26 int), Brandon Stokely WR (4R, to 2013, 397Rec/5339 yds/39 TD)
2000 Jamal Lewis (10.6k RushYds 4.17 avg, 58TD; 221Rec 1879yds, 4TD); Travis Taylor WR (312rec 4017yds 22TD) and in the 6R find Adalius Thomas LB (to 2009, 411 soloTack, 7int, 53sks)
the '96 draft was special; Simeon Rice (122 career sacks 403 solo tackles) and Marvin Harrison (HoF) were also first rounders. The Jets also got Ray Mickens 3R and Marcus Coleman 5R, both players who I liked alot, contributors, but in the 2nd round (the hated, cursed round for us...) the Jets took Alex Van Dyke who played 5 years and had 26 recept for 219 yards, while 4 slots later a guy named Amani Toomer (668 rec/9497 yds/54 TD) played until 2008 was picked by our crosstown relatives.
by comparison (groan...) here are Jets drafts in those years, with what-might-have-beens noted:
1996 Keyshawn Johnson
1997 James Farrior LB (went to Pitt, won SB there) and a Gem in the 7th round, Jason Ferguson, who like a Jason Fabini (4R, 1998 draft) turned into a late round-NFL Stud who found success in Parcells-coached NYJets
1998 see Jason Fabini above, no 1R or 2R picks (the 1R was forfeit to NE iirc, for Parcells)
1999 Randy Thomas (2R later went to Wash)
2000 this was the Shaun Ellis, Jonathan Abraham, Chad Pennington, Anthony Becht and Laveranues Coles (3R) draft. The "Parcells" draft.
A point about Newsome. Even in his first few years, when the Ravens weren't very good, he drafted some spectacularly great and many good players. I say, Ditto to Douglas although Joe's work is not yet at the level of an Ozzie. But it's getting there I think, and I think he's showing perserverance and sticking to the plan like he learned with Ozzie.
Comparison: Douglas' stud picks: Gardner, Wilson, Hall, Johnson II. Very good picks: Mitchell (late round rough gem), Clemons (yeah Deebo!!!).
Head scratcher picks: in 2000 draft, taking Becton over Wirfs (2 spots later to TB) - well, more a risk than a head scratcher; Becton's tape showed a beast, no injury history... and Mekhi played like a beast in his rookie year. Using 20/20 hindsight, i'd say it's best to stay away from 390# linemen - the NFL competition where even a bench rider is better than 99% of what he faced in college and the toll of a 17 game season with that much weight, well we see the injury history on that.
Shit/give them a chance see what they got picks: 2020 draft: Ashtyn Davis S (3R, pick 68) when Brandon Jones S (3R pick 70, to MIA - 115 soloTack, 8sks) was there. And my personal, WTF was he thinking? pick - Zabari Zuniga (3R pick 79 for 6 soloTack) when a stud LB named Alex Highsmith (3R pick 102 to PITT - 108 soloTack, 20sks) was still there. Both of these were really big fails, Douglas takes the blame on this.
A give'em a chance pick in the 2020 draft that worked out well: Bryce Hall - 5R, 99soloTack who dropped because of injury in college, did pretty good for us.
Other picks still not completely rated: Mims (2R)
the 2021 and 2022 drafts speak for themselves: Zach Wilson - headed for the Psych Ward, we'll see if he's a bust after his next NFL stop, but he's done here in NY. Aside from that blazing headache of a realization, there are AVT (superpower stud OLine), Elijah Moore (a mini-Steve Smith if Lafleur can figure out how to use him on quick slants into the middle 8-20yard range of the defensive backfield), Carter Prime & Carter Squared; and Brandin Echols who has turned into a Pretty. Good. Slot cover guy.
The 2022 draft will go down, hopefully, as a better draft than the 2000 where Parcells chose such great players (Shaun Ellis is my favorite; his Jersey is draped over the passenger seat of my 2013 Mustang GT Convertible - so EVERYBODY can SEE IT when I drive by :-)
Final note, since i've been chatting GM all this time. Outside of Elijah Moore and AVT who were definitely 1st round talent, the other guys, along with the team already present, have been developed by Saleh. He deserves great credit for this. One of the things he said last year which sticks with me, when he was talking about young later round draft picks, and i'm paraphrasing him, "... these guys whether #1 picks or 6th, 7th rounders, are all the best of the best. World class athletes. The main difference between why a guy is picked 1st and why he's picked in later rounds? Reps. Number of reps. You give these guys the reps to learn and they will get better. Some faster than others, but they will all get better. Because they're professional athletes. "
So yeah, I'd give Saleh the room to himself grow and make needed changes on the coaching staff. Like getting a more experienced QB coach. Like telling Ulbrich to not sit on his dominant front four tactic and instead go a little crazy/unpredictable by sending 5 or 6 guys in every once in a while - make the opposing O-coord shit his own pants once a while and not be sure of just what the Jets D is going to do.
Anyways enough, it's always great chatting with my fellow Jets fans. When I go to the games and look up around the stands, and see all my folks in green and white, I always smile like a kid - it's a great feeling.
CGVet58
Jets Para Siempre!!!!
good points Steve - what i can add is that even when you're a very good management type, it's still very difficult to get the right combo of superior talent, longevity/health, coaching together into winning packages. Newsome's first four years as a manager? 1996 - 1999, losing records every year but 1999, where they finished .500 (Ted Marchibroda was the coach b4 Billick).
I do agree on AShton Davis, I really liked Pinnock better. And I give him, personal opinion here, 2 years on the OLine rebuild, as that is when he was able to draft OLinemen; the first year he inherited Macagnan/Gase dungpiles.
The Punter? Yeah, he's gotta go; overall average dudn't matter much when you lay out a couple of game killing stinkers every week.