Excellent breakdown of what ZW's weaknesses are: He is awful when pressured, makes bad decisions the majority of the time, and is tentative to run.
The MW promotion to #2 QB tells me this: Our O-line is not good enough to protect the aging Grandpa Joe. Coach Saleh said "ZW is the QB of this team" but if he continues to make poor decisions costing us W's I would not be surprised if MW will replace him during a game.
I hope we can compete Sunday. The 2 1/2 hour drive home is a lot nicer!
Thanks Chris. It's that pressure number that scares me to death, because it's not just bad it's awful. Unless he manages to correct that I just can't see a future in the league for him.
Yeah I know he said he just wants to see him with practice reps etc, but I do think that if Sunday's game unravels for Zach, Saleh will get him out of there to limit the damage.
He misses Beck. Brady is legend because he always takes the first option and thus gets the damn ball out. Strangely, Zack played just like Brady against Tampa and got the ball out. Look at some of those throws dude! Fearless and flung without hesitation. This offense requires RPO dual threat QB and accurate fast decision making by the QB yet Zacks decision making is slowing down which is lethal in this league and he is scared to run. For now, he has to execute short drops and short throws and the team has to bet on and deliver yards after the catch. The team around him is way more talented than last years team. Take the first or second option on all throws ( coach and tell him that is required!). Get your playmakers the damn ball ( move your feet- back foot plant and throw even with pressure). Nobody needs him to ‘make something happen.’ Nobody.
David, really great analysis! You were fair and let the numbers do the damning.
What do you make of Mike White"s elevation and any rumor about what made the club bring up and then not activate the kid qb who was so impressive (albeit against nobodies) this preseason?
The Mike White elevation is a strange one considering how much the team spoke about having Flacco's experience, but I guess he can still bring that experience in plain clothes on the sideline.
The fact we activated Streveller but didn't use him was strange, maybe they thought doing that would distract Bill, but I think actually using him on a handful of plays would have done more good than harm. I don't think Strev is an NFL QB, but that was a strange decision.
I think it's the "training wheels" coming off. Over time, the mentoring of Zach becomes less important and future of the team takes higher priority. While many think there is no shot (I disagree), there is at least a small chance that MFW is part of our future.
great analysis, again! I think the TT (time to throw) is revealing and needs more coverage. His # is off the charts for a QB who rarely runs the ball and it's not better this year. I think it's a symptom of his frequent decision to run from the pocket (I wouldn't call it scrambling), and partly because the OL is giving him adequate time. I get that there is never enough time but....
Based on PFF, our OL is middle of the pack; impressive given the injuries. Wouldn't their stats be even better with stronger QB performance?
Ton of work you did obviously. Thank you. I have stated before here "what is the big deal with Moore he hasnt done a thing in 2 years". He stays or goes makes no difference to me but he doesnt help the offense imo. Everyone says the things Wislon does wrong are correctable. Poor decision making s not. This is the NFL why do people have to talk to him - grow up. We are stuck with him this year and probably next - This year was all abut seeing if the Jets have a QB. Being at the games - he doesnt come close to passing the eye test.
It's interesting. I see the Packers going from Favre to Roger's, and the Rangers going from Lundqvist to Shesterkin and I wonder when will the Jets finally get a first rate quarterback instead of "works in progress" every 3-4 years?
I would like to echo other comments about the quality of your writing. Not just the insights on the football side of things, but your grammar, syntaxes and flow of thought are also first rate. Your writing is a pleasure to read.
Great job David. This is my favorite DWH article yet. Very fair and accurate on all counts! As a former QB and later QB coach and OC I have been discussing these very same issues with fellow Jet fans in my group. ( Old Time Jets Guys) as the group name implies it’s an older more often than not 😂 mature group. Many including myself go back to day one with this team. For me the decision making is the key. The indecisiveness is throwing the timing off which in turn effects the accuracy! It’s all related. Another thing you actually didn’t mention was his attitude towards the media at the post game presser. We all know the press can be ridiculous. Asking the same questions over and over but phrasing them a little differently is a common trick to get a hot quote. But he’s been coached to deal with that. Unfortunately he chose a different tack and was arrogant and condescending which of course accomplished nothing but painting himself as immature.
Question: Can any part of the horrible numbers under pressure be addressed through coaching? A short step up in the pocket, a side step or two, all the while keeping your eyes down field?
Not trying to blame the coaching, nor shift responsibility away from ZW, but just trying to figure out what needs to be innate, and what can be coached.
Absolutely, I think with any professional athlete there is a joint responsibility. Zach needs to make better decisions but the coaches need to be absolutely drilling the pocket awareness into him, about stepping and sliding and not bailing. It'll only work if they can show him examples on film and there were a couple of excellent ones on Sunday where he spun away instead of climbing up.
As a Jets fan forever (1968!), I have read a TON about the team every single year. I have to say, David, that your writing is among the very best. You are thoughtful, analytical and bring much wisdom. In the case of Zach, commentary has been either incredibly negative or perhaps hopelessly optimistic. Like I would have expected, your tone, context and perspective absolutely framed and nailed the debate perfectly. It was a great piece and made my day!
David, Zach hesitant to run after knee injury in pre-season. You are dead right he needs to step up or move around pocket when not clean, when he spins he loses his receivers. However, He throws darts when in the pocket clean. In first half he made several excellent throws, including TD. On slants and posts over the middle he throws a great ball. He needs this year and next year before we make a decision, but he needs better coaching. BTW, Jets fans booed throw aways just before pics 2 and 3… so we are contributing to pressure he feels internally to make a play to win the game.
What do you think of this Nextgen stat that seems particularly troubling?
Completion % above/below expectation - ZW is 2nd lowest after Mayfield this year and was worst in NFL in 2021.
Per Nextgen stats: The probability of a pass completion, based on numerous factors such as receiver separation from the nearest defender, where the receiver is on the field, the separation the passer had at time of throw from the nearest pass rusher, and more
I haven't actually seen that, but the worrying thing here is I'm not surprised in the slightest. Wins can mask a lot of issues, but Zach really hasn't played well all season and last year was exactly the same. I went back all the way to 2006 and Zach's passing under pressure in 2021 and 2022 were two of the lowest numbers on record, his current 2022 is by far the worst mark among any QB in the last 15 years.
Lot of work to be done, but with all this staring me in the face I still can't help but feel as though Zach still has something and still has that potential. Maybe it's just me being an eternal optimist or maybe I just can't stomach another QB restart. As someone who wanted Fields over Wilson, seeing Fields start to put it together is painful.
You are right about him either being scared of running or being coached not to run. Understandable, since he got hurt this way but he is not an asset to us if he isn’t a threat to run and does not take obvious opportunities to move the sticks. He was scared Sunday and he played scared.
He needs to play consistently in the pocket. His model game regains the Tampa Bay game, where he played like Tom Terrific. Z dropped back, planted and threw on schedule to his first option, even if it was a tight window (!!)
Our OL is terrible right now but Zack is making horrible decisions and keeps making the mistake of taking too much time. He throws to his first options late or not at all and then, to your point, spins out trouble, loses sight of the field and, again, makes terrible decisions. Without his personal coach, his footwork is rapidly deteriorating which is why so many of his short throws are off. He has got athletic ability. The questions are: does he have the will and discipline to play winning football vs ego football? Can he play at NFL speed and make decisions and accurate throws to his first available option in under 3 seconds? can he maneuver in the pocket instead of bailing? When will he remember that he can run with the ball? Is he capable of consistently making accurate short throws with proper footwork?
If not, the answer isn’t White at all; the answer if we want to win after the break and go to the playoffs is Chris. Because he is mobile, fearless, can make professional throws and is a proven champion. Grown men will play for that dude cause he is clearly a gunslinger. That counts for a lot.
PS. Eli isn’t going anywhere. He has zero leverage and is going to learn a hard lesson about business this year. The first rule of football is do your job.
Absolutely agree on basically everything you said there. Inside the pocket he hasn't been too bad at all, the touchdowns aren't there but the accuracy is and that counts for a lot when you're completing 19.1% when under pressure, at the end of the day that's the number that he really needs to work on, as unless he improves that to at minimum 40%, then I just can't see him being the QB we thought we were getting at #2 overall.
By all accounts he is a very hard worker, a film junky, all the things you love in a QB but something isn't clicking with what he's seeing on film and actioning in the game. I started going through the New England game and he misses so many open throw, so many open receivers, when he moves outside the pocket his vision seems to fail him.
I'm close to saying the Jets need to call John Beck and give him what he wants to come back for the rest of the season.
Excellent breakdown of what ZW's weaknesses are: He is awful when pressured, makes bad decisions the majority of the time, and is tentative to run.
The MW promotion to #2 QB tells me this: Our O-line is not good enough to protect the aging Grandpa Joe. Coach Saleh said "ZW is the QB of this team" but if he continues to make poor decisions costing us W's I would not be surprised if MW will replace him during a game.
I hope we can compete Sunday. The 2 1/2 hour drive home is a lot nicer!
Go Jets!
Thanks Chris. It's that pressure number that scares me to death, because it's not just bad it's awful. Unless he manages to correct that I just can't see a future in the league for him.
Yeah I know he said he just wants to see him with practice reps etc, but I do think that if Sunday's game unravels for Zach, Saleh will get him out of there to limit the damage.
No expectations this week, so who knows.
The pressure numbers have to improve or the league will destroy him.
He misses Beck. Brady is legend because he always takes the first option and thus gets the damn ball out. Strangely, Zack played just like Brady against Tampa and got the ball out. Look at some of those throws dude! Fearless and flung without hesitation. This offense requires RPO dual threat QB and accurate fast decision making by the QB yet Zacks decision making is slowing down which is lethal in this league and he is scared to run. For now, he has to execute short drops and short throws and the team has to bet on and deliver yards after the catch. The team around him is way more talented than last years team. Take the first or second option on all throws ( coach and tell him that is required!). Get your playmakers the damn ball ( move your feet- back foot plant and throw even with pressure). Nobody needs him to ‘make something happen.’ Nobody.
David, really great analysis! You were fair and let the numbers do the damning.
What do you make of Mike White"s elevation and any rumor about what made the club bring up and then not activate the kid qb who was so impressive (albeit against nobodies) this preseason?
The Mike White elevation is a strange one considering how much the team spoke about having Flacco's experience, but I guess he can still bring that experience in plain clothes on the sideline.
The fact we activated Streveller but didn't use him was strange, maybe they thought doing that would distract Bill, but I think actually using him on a handful of plays would have done more good than harm. I don't think Strev is an NFL QB, but that was a strange decision.
I think it's the "training wheels" coming off. Over time, the mentoring of Zach becomes less important and future of the team takes higher priority. While many think there is no shot (I disagree), there is at least a small chance that MFW is part of our future.
great analysis, again! I think the TT (time to throw) is revealing and needs more coverage. His # is off the charts for a QB who rarely runs the ball and it's not better this year. I think it's a symptom of his frequent decision to run from the pocket (I wouldn't call it scrambling), and partly because the OL is giving him adequate time. I get that there is never enough time but....
Based on PFF, our OL is middle of the pack; impressive given the injuries. Wouldn't their stats be even better with stronger QB performance?
This situation is painful. My head hurts.
Ton of work you did obviously. Thank you. I have stated before here "what is the big deal with Moore he hasnt done a thing in 2 years". He stays or goes makes no difference to me but he doesnt help the offense imo. Everyone says the things Wislon does wrong are correctable. Poor decision making s not. This is the NFL why do people have to talk to him - grow up. We are stuck with him this year and probably next - This year was all abut seeing if the Jets have a QB. Being at the games - he doesnt come close to passing the eye test.
This is brilliant work as usual.
It's interesting. I see the Packers going from Favre to Roger's, and the Rangers going from Lundqvist to Shesterkin and I wonder when will the Jets finally get a first rate quarterback instead of "works in progress" every 3-4 years?
Thank you for the response.
I would like to echo other comments about the quality of your writing. Not just the insights on the football side of things, but your grammar, syntaxes and flow of thought are also first rate. Your writing is a pleasure to read.
Great job David. This is my favorite DWH article yet. Very fair and accurate on all counts! As a former QB and later QB coach and OC I have been discussing these very same issues with fellow Jet fans in my group. ( Old Time Jets Guys) as the group name implies it’s an older more often than not 😂 mature group. Many including myself go back to day one with this team. For me the decision making is the key. The indecisiveness is throwing the timing off which in turn effects the accuracy! It’s all related. Another thing you actually didn’t mention was his attitude towards the media at the post game presser. We all know the press can be ridiculous. Asking the same questions over and over but phrasing them a little differently is a common trick to get a hot quote. But he’s been coached to deal with that. Unfortunately he chose a different tack and was arrogant and condescending which of course accomplished nothing but painting himself as immature.
Question: Can any part of the horrible numbers under pressure be addressed through coaching? A short step up in the pocket, a side step or two, all the while keeping your eyes down field?
Not trying to blame the coaching, nor shift responsibility away from ZW, but just trying to figure out what needs to be innate, and what can be coached.
Absolutely, I think with any professional athlete there is a joint responsibility. Zach needs to make better decisions but the coaches need to be absolutely drilling the pocket awareness into him, about stepping and sliding and not bailing. It'll only work if they can show him examples on film and there were a couple of excellent ones on Sunday where he spun away instead of climbing up.
Peter, it can be if you have a willing pupil! One has to wonder because after a season and a half he’s making the same mistakes. Only more often. 🤔
As a Jets fan forever (1968!), I have read a TON about the team every single year. I have to say, David, that your writing is among the very best. You are thoughtful, analytical and bring much wisdom. In the case of Zach, commentary has been either incredibly negative or perhaps hopelessly optimistic. Like I would have expected, your tone, context and perspective absolutely framed and nailed the debate perfectly. It was a great piece and made my day!
David, Zach hesitant to run after knee injury in pre-season. You are dead right he needs to step up or move around pocket when not clean, when he spins he loses his receivers. However, He throws darts when in the pocket clean. In first half he made several excellent throws, including TD. On slants and posts over the middle he throws a great ball. He needs this year and next year before we make a decision, but he needs better coaching. BTW, Jets fans booed throw aways just before pics 2 and 3… so we are contributing to pressure he feels internally to make a play to win the game.
What do you think of this Nextgen stat that seems particularly troubling?
Completion % above/below expectation - ZW is 2nd lowest after Mayfield this year and was worst in NFL in 2021.
Per Nextgen stats: The probability of a pass completion, based on numerous factors such as receiver separation from the nearest defender, where the receiver is on the field, the separation the passer had at time of throw from the nearest pass rusher, and more
I haven't actually seen that, but the worrying thing here is I'm not surprised in the slightest. Wins can mask a lot of issues, but Zach really hasn't played well all season and last year was exactly the same. I went back all the way to 2006 and Zach's passing under pressure in 2021 and 2022 were two of the lowest numbers on record, his current 2022 is by far the worst mark among any QB in the last 15 years.
Lot of work to be done, but with all this staring me in the face I still can't help but feel as though Zach still has something and still has that potential. Maybe it's just me being an eternal optimist or maybe I just can't stomach another QB restart. As someone who wanted Fields over Wilson, seeing Fields start to put it together is painful.
I'm with you on Fields, wanted him over Zach but...
Your assessment in this article says more than you're willing to admit outright. Zach isn't the answer.
I was hopeful, like perhaps I'm missing something. Hope isn't a strategy.
The search continues for a franchise QB... (sigh...)
You are right about him either being scared of running or being coached not to run. Understandable, since he got hurt this way but he is not an asset to us if he isn’t a threat to run and does not take obvious opportunities to move the sticks. He was scared Sunday and he played scared.
He needs to play consistently in the pocket. His model game regains the Tampa Bay game, where he played like Tom Terrific. Z dropped back, planted and threw on schedule to his first option, even if it was a tight window (!!)
Our OL is terrible right now but Zack is making horrible decisions and keeps making the mistake of taking too much time. He throws to his first options late or not at all and then, to your point, spins out trouble, loses sight of the field and, again, makes terrible decisions. Without his personal coach, his footwork is rapidly deteriorating which is why so many of his short throws are off. He has got athletic ability. The questions are: does he have the will and discipline to play winning football vs ego football? Can he play at NFL speed and make decisions and accurate throws to his first available option in under 3 seconds? can he maneuver in the pocket instead of bailing? When will he remember that he can run with the ball? Is he capable of consistently making accurate short throws with proper footwork?
If not, the answer isn’t White at all; the answer if we want to win after the break and go to the playoffs is Chris. Because he is mobile, fearless, can make professional throws and is a proven champion. Grown men will play for that dude cause he is clearly a gunslinger. That counts for a lot.
PS. Eli isn’t going anywhere. He has zero leverage and is going to learn a hard lesson about business this year. The first rule of football is do your job.
Absolutely agree on basically everything you said there. Inside the pocket he hasn't been too bad at all, the touchdowns aren't there but the accuracy is and that counts for a lot when you're completing 19.1% when under pressure, at the end of the day that's the number that he really needs to work on, as unless he improves that to at minimum 40%, then I just can't see him being the QB we thought we were getting at #2 overall.
By all accounts he is a very hard worker, a film junky, all the things you love in a QB but something isn't clicking with what he's seeing on film and actioning in the game. I started going through the New England game and he misses so many open throw, so many open receivers, when he moves outside the pocket his vision seems to fail him.
I'm close to saying the Jets need to call John Beck and give him what he wants to come back for the rest of the season.