When Joe Douglas was hired, the Jets, without a question of a doubt had the worst roster in the NFL.
Here we are four years later, this team has come to the point where some position groups are over flowing with talent, this includes wr, te, defensive line/ edge, cornerback and running back once Breece Hall comes back. Not only are these position groups talented but they are probably faster than any previous Jet teams.
Though it is early, is it possible the starting safeties will be Adams and Dean, who really stepped it up Thursday night.
The fans clamored for KwanAlexander but if Sherwood’s performance on Thursday was the real indication of how much he has improved. Then you can see why Kwon wasn’t resigned. You also saw Surrett who never was mentioned once by any beat writer before the game, be very active. Barnes and Cherelus were also given significant playing time. Has the talent level of the linebacking crew really improved?
Lastly, the white elephant in the Jets locker room the offensive line. Aside from Rodgers, the most written about player during the offseason was/ has been Becton.
To eliminate the boredom of redundancy, no one can say who the starting 5 will be, because not everyone is healthy. This grouping has basically 4 weeks for the starting 5 to emerge.
Just to add fuel to the fire, the highest graded offensive lineman according to PFF against the Browns was Greg Senat from Wagner College, who????.
I bet David has no info or video of him, lol.
Lastly, cut down dates. This was probably the best kept secret of the off season.
In previous years, there were cutdown days after every preseason week to gradually trim rosters down from 90 to 53. That rule changed for 2023, as there's now just one date when teams must get to 53 players: Tuesday, Aug. 29.
Players can be traded or cut before Aug. 29, but there is no rule requiring teams to gradually make moves anymore. A team could theoretically carry 90 players throughout the entire preseason -- but it would then have to cut 37 players on the cut day.
Since this is the first year without multiple cut days, it's unclear how each team will handle the process of setting its regular season roster.
How many players are on an NFL team in 2023?
Teams are allowed to carry 90 players in the offseason, but rosters must be cut to 53 players by Aug. 29 and remain at that number throughout the season.
Despite having 53 players on the roster, only 48 are allowed to be active on game day.
In addition to the 53-man active roster, each club can carry up to 16 players on its regular season practice squad.
Bobber, I couldn't agree more about the talent on our team and the job that JD has done in building the roster. That's why I find it so repugnant and ignorant when Jets fans talk about firing him if the team doesn't win this season. Many Jets fans are totally unrealistic in what it takes to build a roster and what it takes to develop players. They're so used to instant gratification and spoiled by it, that they think it applies everywhere, and it doesn't, especially not in football.
I don't think that there have been any records kept on it, but overall, this has to be the fastest Jets team ever. It's too bad that Mims and A. Davis never developed, because they are/were two of the fastest Jets, but losing them isn't going to hurt.
I would be surprised if Adams and Dean are the starting S duo, but not upset. Dean has really surprised me. I was concerned about his lack of foot speed, but sometimes player's instincts can make up for lack of foot speed, and some play faster than they time in the 40. Dean has been impressive so far, that's for certain.
Sherwood looked really good on Thursday night, and I see why the Jets didn't bring Kwon back. Surratt and Cheralus looked pretty good too. Barnes better watch out or he may be on the outside looking in.
I feel pretty safe in saying that Tomlinson and AVT will be the starters at OG. At this point, Becton should be considered the starter at LT if his conditioning is built up and his confidence in his knee is there. That means Mitchell would need to be the starter at RT. Turner has looked awful in TC. He's been beaten like a drum with regularity. There's no way that he should be even in the running for a starting position at this point. In fact, I think if it weren't for the fact that he knows the scheme so well and has experience with Hackett and Rodgers, and is so position versatile, he should have played his way off the roster by this point. He really needs to step it up over the next 3 weeks.
As you stated, I believe that many, if not most, will waive some players earlier so that they can possibly catch on with another team. The ones they hold onto are going to be the ones who are still in close competition for a roster spot or that the team wants to keep on their PS.
Hi Craig. I agree with you. Team sports particular football require patience. To develop a deep roster of quality players takes years. I think JD has done a very good job. We are almost there
Bobber, actually I believe the new cut down rule was instituted last year. Not sure of the particulars but there were significant cuts prior to that one day. I think that will happen this year as well.
Ron, no the one cut down day is new this year and was just approved a week or two ago. Last year they cut it from 3 cut down days to 2. This year they cut it to 1.
Craig, ah, no. After doing a little research the initial cuts (90 to 85) were ion August 16th last year. The 2nd waive was on Aug 23 ( 85 to 80) and the final cuts (85 to 53 came on Aug 30th! The amount of players cut early we significantly smaller but it was not all at once!
Ron, I didn't say that they were all at once last year. I said that was new for this year and it is. I read an article a week or so ago stating that last year the NFL had changed from 3 cutdown days to 2, and then to just 1 cutdown day this year, but can't find the article now. I just checked and read other articles, I see that the author of the initial article I read was mistaken. There were still 3 cutdown days last season. This year there will be only the one cutdown day.
Did it not just feel GREAT, when Klecko was up there, to hear our fans there just light up the place with the "Jay! Eee! Tee! eSS! JETS! JETS JETS!" chant? Honestly for that one, unforgettable moment, it really was like JetLife stadium.
And for the record, the fans really pulled it together for the chant for Joe... and not as powerful a chant for Darrelle. I guess we all know for certain who we Jets fans really love the most between the two, eh?
CG, I"m so mad at myself. I was going to watch Joe being inducted into the HOF on Saturday, and went out before that and started painting on my new shed, and totally forgot about it. I wound up painting for 6 hours. Still have quite a ways to go.
Yes, Lazard needs to hit the JUGS machine big time!
Kudos to you for quitting smoking cold turkey!!!! I'm so happy for you that you did that. 3 packs a day, wow! My dad had smoked for about 20 years, then quit. He lived to be 99. Even in the last years of his life after he had eaten a good meal, he said that he still had a craving for a cigarette. That's scary!!!
Yes, thank God we have Sauce. I think he's going to have a huge year and career if he can stay healthy.
I'm loving the Zach news.
IMO no team is going to offer an above average OT for Huff alone, much less with a 2nd round pick. That's a pipe dream. Huff should go nowhere. He's our best pass rusher. I noticed that Huff was up against Dawand Jones. Tough battle. I also noticed that several runs went to the outside where Huff should have been. I was disappointed to see that.
I wish that I had your confidence in Saleh, but I don't. I didn't like his comments about Tippman's performance in the game. I'm not sure how that is supposed to help Tippman. know that Saleh has confidence in him when he's surprised how well Tippman played.
Regarding cut down day, I don't think it's going to make it any harder on the team. At this point, they already know some players that aren't going to make the team. They know who the players are that could go either way and are starting to emerge, shine a little. They know who are close to making the team. They also know who they like on other teams that possibly may be cut. I think the only part of this that may be a little harder is that there will be so many players released at one time, and for any players that they claim, there won't be much time for those players to learn the new scheme and build any chemistry with their new team. I think this move was made in an attempt to keep so many players from changing teams. After a team drafts or signs a UDFA and spends time and $s developing them, they don't want to lose them. Any new players that are signed to a PS is one thing, but any that are signed to the active roster, probably will never contribute during the season unless they have played in the scheme or a very similar scheme before or are a very quick learner.
great speech, my kinda guy. Humble and Grateful. And it ends on a high note - the fans attending gave him the JETS chant and Craig, honestly, they were soooo loud it sounded like MetLife.
David, excellent job as always. Interesting you started todays mentioning Aaron Rodgers and his hand signals. As I’m reading I’m watching ESPN’s GET UP program. And there is C.J.Uzomah and Mecole Hardman talking about AR changing the hand signals from play to play🤷🏼♂️! I honestly don’t know what to make of the Zach Wilson practice results. We’ve seen this from Zach since his rookie season. It all seems to go south for him when the red practice Jersey’s come off. Obviously from a team standpoint it would be ideal for him to truly progress. But from a realistic standpoint I’m having trouble becoming a believer. It’s hard to shake the stank of his hideous performance vs Jacksonville and several other stinkers.
It's all about resilience, heart and desire, Ron. Some people have it, some don't. Some players have it, some don't. I may be proven wrong, but I believe with every fiber of my being that Zach has it and he is going to turn things around and develop into the player the Jets thought that they were getting when they drafted him #2. With better handling and coaching, I don't think Zach would have had to take the detour through the sewer, but who knows. Maybe that's what it took to bring out the best in him. Maybe he needed to work with/learn from Rodgers to reach his full potential. Things often happen the way they're supposed to happen and for the best.
Craig, hmmm, I wish I could agree with you. I just haven’t seen any of the attributes you mentioned with Zach. The most troubling issues for me is the inability to play well under pressure. I agree courage and perseverance are key elements to good QB play. But when you finish dead last in your only two years in the league under pressure it’s obvious to this old fool that those are the exact two attributes he lacks!
Ron, I believe that you're wrong. He does not lack those attributes. Did you watch any of Zach's games at BYU? It doesn't sound as if you did. I don't see how you could have watched many and come up with the blanket statements that you're throwing around about what attributes he lacks and what he isn't capable of doing.
I watched every single one of his games that were/are available on the internet. I read scouting report, interview, everything I could about him. I watched every video where former NFL QBs, scouting services, and others broke down the tape on him and showed his strengths and weaknesses. None of what you toss out as Zach's negatives were ever mentioned, and I never saw those negatives in his play. He was a totally different player his last season at BYU than he was last year. Zach didn't start out bad his rookie season. He got worse as games progressed, got injured, then showed improvement when he came back, but was no longer playing like he did his last year at BYU. I don't know for certain what was the root of his problems, but it seemed like he was having to think too much, trying not to make mistakes, pressing, trying to adapt to what MLF and Saleh and the WCO were demanding of him, but he didn't have the right footwork and still hadn't developed the mindset he needed. He was being asked to play at a high level, carry the team, while changing his mindset about how he played, and working on changing his footwork, while frequently having to run for his life when he dropped back to pass because our OL was so bad, and then he had a ton of his passes dropped his rookie season. One thing I believe for certain, if a player has a talent/skill at something, they just don't lose it. I don't believe that Zach lost the ability to play at a high level and succeed in the NFL. He showed that ability at BYU, and we've seen glimpses of that in the NFL. IMO he just needs to get over whatever it is that's been standing in the way of his talent/ability.
He was rated so highly for a reason. JD isn't Mac or Idzik. Look at the talent he has assembled on this team. Even with Zach's prodigious arm talent, he wouldn't have taken Zach if Zach didn't have the right mental makeup to succeed in the NFL.
Also, we all know that people learn and change much more easily when they're young than when they're old. Zach is still only 22 or 23. Most people that age are resilient, and if they want to learn something or change, and are willing to work hard enough, they can and do learn or change. Can you imagine what it must have been like to be a somewhat immature young kid to be drafted #2 in the NFL draft, to have all the pressure of being a franchise's "savior" and performing in front of millions of fans, with lousy coaching, and no real support at age 21? I can't even begin to imagine that. I know that I sucked at most of what I did at that age, and I didn't have any real pressure on me to do my best. Zach's struggles the last 2 years are partly due to his immaturity and failings to succeed under pressure, but imo are much more about the failings of JD, Saleh, and MLF than they are Zach's. IMO Zach didn't have good coaching and the right environment that would have enabled him to succeed. The team knows that. That's why MLF is no longer with the team, Hackett is, and Rodgers, and the team hasn't given up on him.
There are a lot of different factors that can affect how players play in the NFL. They're human. They aren't supermen with rock solid, unshakeable confidence levels, with no emotions, no fears, no doubts. A perfect example of that is Tristan Wirfs. He is moving to LT this season. He just admitted that he is having to see the team Sports Psychologist because he's eaten up with fears and doubts about succeeding at LT. It also turns out that he had those about playing RT. Somehow he was still able to play at a very high level with those fears and doubts. For whatever reason Zach didn't play well with what he was dealing with, but Zach also had a lot more working against him, and playing QB is much harder than playing RT.
Lazard + Drops = JUGGS MACHINE! Get to it, Hombre!
Ahhh, Sauce... I thank the Football gods in the sky that Houston chose Derek Stingley jr - I really thought they were going to pick Sauce. They didn't, and I get to thank the gods frequently, just like I thank God everytime I see someone smoking for helping me to quit smoking 20 years ago (before the birth of my son). I was a three-pack-a-day smoker... Aaand was still running 3 miles on sandy beaches with my Akita (I told you guys my elevator sometimes doesn't make it to the top floor...). No patch, no pills, I quit Cold Turkey. Just Prayer and Single Malt Scotch (Bowmores 15 year Darkest). Thank you, Lord (... and Thank You again for making me a Jets Fan 4 Life)! And David, I luv the "... Sauce Gardner did Sauce Gardner things..." - that's a keeper, man. I might just get a shirt made with that phrase, change the did to "does" - now THAT would be an eye catcher, eh?
Good news on Zach, great to hear. It's like shooting - slow is smooth; and smooth is fast. Keep on working on that, Zach. Trust your O-Line, and step up into the storm of the pass rush. If that technique is good enough for Brady the GOAT (who seriously is a statue slogging through mud when he moves sideways...) then it's good enough for you.
Huff. Yes I can see your point, don't get trade him! BUT - what if... someone offers an above average OT capable of playing the left side... AND a Two?? Respectfully, my English friend - I'm jumpin' on that like a herd of Locusts that finds a nice, freshly mown natural grass field. Also, on Huff's stats - I saw him taking on the GOT Mountain guy straight up, not really jukin' him alot. It looked like he was playing "4" technique, where I think he would've gotten more out of playing a "5". Maybe his primary assignment was to contain vice penetrate? Cause he left alot of space on that guy's right shoulder during several pass rush attempts. Just sayin'.
Agree with your Tippman appraisal, and your appraisal of screetchy paranoid Jets fans (thankfully a small but albeit loud minority). Like Zach's approach - slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Saleh knows what he's doing. Figure on Joe working his way up to taking snaps with 1st team throughout the rest of the preseason. I wouldn't count him out as a potential starter by week two just yet. (not week one vs the Bills, on MNF - talk about adrenalin rush!). Excellent vids, as my eyes can't catch this on the TV. The flipping of his hips - amazin'. How big is this guy, 6'6", 300+ pounds? And he can move like that? Yeah, I'm not worried about him coming along - I double down on him, and say he'll be starting by week two (absent any unforeseen events requiring other things on the line of course...).
Last mention, on Bobber's (ya got here first this AM, B!!! ooo-RAAHHH!!!) post earlier this morning. Cutdown dates changed to one date, Aug 29th.
> Pro: Gives guys that are on the bubble and who would've been cut sooner in earlier years, more reps, more of a chance to let the game come to them, then "click" - the light turns on and something special happens. Diamonds in the rough; showing a newly polished facet and promising more.
> Con: it's going to make deciding who to cut a helluva lot harder on the staff.
> Side-benefit Pro: Gives JD and our excellent scouting staff a potentially great opportunity to look at other teams, find other similar rough diamonds on those teams and keep a running board (like a dynamic draft board) on these guys to see who gets cut. Because there are 31 other teams, and they, too, will have similar players blossoming - but they won't be able to keep everyone they want, either. JD & crew have shown they can take advantage of this - as long as the names involved aren't Davis & Pinnock. A fans request to JD: if you're doing this - and you should be - focus on the OLine and OTs - please!
Second Last Mention (really): Bobber, I think with the addition of a 17th game to the schedule, the NFL should expand rosters to 55. What do you think?
CGV, I have the best quit smoking story ever. I went to a very strict Catholic high school in Brooklyn, but grew up in Coney Island in the mid-to-late 1950's. Back then if you didn't smoke by the age of 11 you were a pansy. Plus I was the oldest looking one so I bought the butts. By the time I was in high school I was a pack-a-day smoker, Chestefield's. The school had an exclusion zone where you couldn't be caught doing banned stuff, like smoking or going into a local candy store that sold porn mags. When I took the bus to school, I and one of my friends would get off 3 or 4 stops early and smoke before going in. The assistant principal/dean of discipline, Brother Kyrin Powers (I'll never forget him), used to drive around before school to see if any of us miscreants were breaking the rules, lol. One morning my friend and I were walking and got lost in the clouds. All of a sudden, we heard a car pull to the curb and a voice that sounded like rocks rolling down a mountain said "Gentlemen, ditch those butts and get in the car !". Brother Kyrin was NOT your typical lay brother, he was an ex-Marine who had served for 16 years and was a Korean War vet. He was about 6'4" and 245 pounds and was VERY impressive. Even the mob guys whose sons went to the school were intimidated by him. But he was very fair and wasn't someone who used his position to be a tyrant, just a USMC drill instructor, lol. Long story short, I got suspended and they called my parents to come to school. My dad, who was NYPD, had just gotten off a 12-8 shift and came to get me. When we went home, he said where are the cigarettes ? I had 5 packs and went to give them to him and he said, "No, go by the kitchen window and smoke them all !" I did, and I never touched another cigarette again, right up until today. I smoked other things, lol, cigars and once a pipe, but never inhaled another cigarette again. That was over 60 years ago.
You really had to be there. There were always stories about Brother Kyrin, he was a no-nonsense kind of guy. One time he caught one of the mob kids cheating on a Regents exam and stormed in and dragged the student AND the desk together out of the classroom and the kid was stupid, or arrogant, enough to take a swing at him. He just whipped the kid from one side of the corridor to the other a couple of times where the student lockers were, lol. They called the kid's father, who I knew of from Coney Island and was a captain in Joe Profaci's family. He came in and the kid started whining about what happened and his father shut him up with a finger point. He asked Brother Kyrin what happened and was shown the cheat sheet sewn into the lining of the kid's sport jacket. lol. His father looked at him, then told Brother Kyrin to hit him again and gave permission to brother Kyrin to do what he had to do to straighten him out. Unfortunately, the dad had some issues of his own, and a year or two later he went to a meeting and never came back. He had left his wallet, ring and watch home so he knew what was up. About 30+ years later, the FBI found his remains under the concrete floor of a former "social club" on Columbia Street in Brooklyn after a phoned-in tip. They found the remains of about 7 or 8 men who had vanished years earlier. Sad, but it was the life they led. That story comes up at every reunion like clockwork.
P.S. - The son ended up down the wrong road and did 16 years in a fed lockup for conspiracy connected to the Pizza Connection investigation.
shit Mike, I was only stationed in Italy for 3 years, but bud - you got to see the Goombahs up close. You were practically connected LOL.
But I'll tell ya, those old time guys like that, that's what I saw growin up, what influenced me and every other kid on the block. Stand up guys, you know? Tough for sure, but they always looked out for the neighborhood kids.
I grew up in Washington Heights, till 6th grade. My childhood to that point?
Like reruns of spanky and our gang. Mischief, but no trouble, just kids stuff.
Then, when my Dad moved us out to long island ( Lon - GYland is the correct pronunciation, ahem...) in 1970. I didn't want to leave, what kid does? But then, going back a few years later, a bit older and maybe a bit smarter, I could already see what heroin had done to the neighborhood. And Coke. elementary school friends of mine that we used to play in the streets, hang out - drug dealers, strung out or a couple dead. Totally F'd up - and my Dad got us out of that.
There used to be a magazine, LIFE, always had a front cover pic of something relevant to the times. During the crack epidemic, mid-80's, i remember a cover with a street corner in NY. hundreds of the little plastic vials strewn on the curb and street. The top of the pic showed the cross section - Broadway and 177th street, in Manhattan.
I used to live on 177th and St Nicholas Ave - two blocks away.
There but for the Grace of God, Mike...
Great stories. nice to know there are fans here who know where I come from and vice versa.
When I lived in Coney Island, my grandfather's house was right next door to the Riviera Caterers, which has been run by the same family since before 1920. I always knew the family name as Zack, it was probably longer, but I don't remember it. They were always good to my grandfather, watched out for him and would always send food over, manicotti, ravioli, tortoni, the usual guinea stuff. Now they were definitely mobbed up right from the beginning right up until today, and they are about the only building in Coney Island that was NEVER vandalized or had graffiti on it. On the other side of my grandpa Tony's house was the garage for Bay Ridge Carting, another associated operation, the owner was Angelo Mondrone. he also took good care of my grandpa and used to take him when he went to make collections. Occasionally, there were times he would tell him, stay home today, I don't want you involved. Then down a little further was the house that the King of the Gypsies for Coney Island and Brighton Beach. So I got to know a lot of people in different situations. There was a salumeria on Neptune Avenue that was owned by Nino Russo, who eventually bought the restaurant Garguilo's, also in Coney Island, that his family still owns after more than 40 years. Everyone knew everyone else and took care of each other's kids and watched out for them. I'm sure up to a certain point it was like that in parts of upper Manhattan and the Bronx, especially by Arthur Avenue. But it was a different time. One more funny story. My mom was born inn 1920. When she was around 12 or 13, she was with my grandpa talking to the owners at Garguilo's when a couple of men came by to sit and talk. Now this was when Coney Island was the summer hangout spot for the mob guys. While my grandpa was talking Andy Zack, one of the three men was talking to my mom very nicely and politely. When the men left, one went to my grandpa and told him to make sure my mom goes to college, because she was so smart she could become a lawyer. That man was Albert Anastasia, The Mad Hatter, and the other two were the Prime Minister, Frank Costello and Joe Adonis, three of the top guys in La Cosa Nostra. And this was only two years after Joe The Boss Masseria was shot and killed in Scarpato's Restaurant in Coney Island by Joe Adonis and two of his men, which has been shown in so many movies and films. The hit was ordered by Salvatore Lucania a/k/a Charley Lucky Luciano. Unfortunately, my mom never went to college, though she did finish high school and worked in the war industries in WW II before she met my dad and got married. She was the smartest woman I've ever seen and we all joke about her being a high-powered lawyer like Gloria Allred, a CEO or a great mob boss. She could have done all those things and more. Another time I'll tell you about a very interesting wake I went to and who was there. Enjoy Lon-Gyland !!!! my cousin has lived in Central Islip for over 40 years and I'm there fairly often.
Yeah, truth can be better than fiction in that circle. I grew up with a lot of mob kids and one of them still runs the neighborhood in Coney Island today. One block had all of them living on it. West 16th Street between Neptune Avenue and Hart Place. I was born one block over on West 15th Street.
that is a hellaciously good story, bud! I'll betcha got wretched sick fm smokin all them at one shot - and like a puppy stickin it's nose to close to a fire, ya never ever went back to doin it!
First, I'm thankful that Rodgers toe injury wasn't more serious, none of the injuries that happened in the practice yesterday are serious, and that those who were injured in the game on Thursday night weren't more serious. I pray that no one on either team will get hurt in this week's practice and game vs Carolina. I hope that Cheralus and Surratt are back soon, because they need the reps and we're going to need them this season.
Sauce's vision, recognition of where the pass was going, his speed and play on the ball were awesome yesterday. I'm looking for quite a few interceptions from him this season, and if he doesn't go on to have a HOF career (if he can stay healthy) will be a total shock.
Zach is looking better and better. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the game this Saturday. I'm truly looking forward to all his detractors and haters having to eat crow.
Yes, accountability is something that's been lacking on the Jets for a very long time. That's one of the things I'm most excited about with Rodgers here. I believe that Hardman and he will get on the same page, and that everyone else on offense will take notice of this, and step up their mental work, so they don't screw up.
I couldn't possibly agree more about not trading Bryce Huff. IMO without a doubt, at present he is our best pass rusher. Period. I don't care that he's just a role player. He has more success in terms of pressures, hits and sacks in his limited snaps than any of our other Edges. The Jets need to find a way to keep him long term.
One can see the chemistry and connection building between Rodgers and all of his receivers, regardless of their position. It's exciting! The drops need to stop. I'm looking at you Lazard!!! Davis needs to continue to hold onto the ball and stay healthy.
I hate that Bawden is earning a spot on the roster and becoming a big part of the offense. Nothing personal against him, but it's going to mean that one or more of Brownlee, Gipson, Yeboah, Kuntz, Cheralus, and CB backups aren't going to make the team. Either that, or the Jets wind up keeping only 8 OL or only 9 DL. It's going to hurt another position group, possibly two. He's a nice player, but not nearly as talented as some of those young players we will lose. If he does make the roster, he'd better play his ass off.
I didn't like Saleh's comment that he was surprised that Tippman played well in the game. I find it hard to believe that Tippman has been that bad in practice that it would be surprising that he played so well in the game. I think Saleh is biased towards McGovern, and he lets his personal likes and biases overrule his better judgment. I hope I'm wrong, but with comments he has made this and his previous seasons that seems to be the case. I hope that Tippman plays lights out this week, in practices during the rest of TC and Saleh is forced to start Tippman. I think he will give the OL the best, most consistent play, and the best protection for Rodgers.
David, the stats you quoted from PFF on Tippman are precisely why I think PFFs ratings are a joke. He had a 100% pass blocking efficiency, yet he only earned an 82.9 grade for pass protection? That's completely illogical and absurd imo. I realize that they're the only game in town that does that type of grading (X Factor only does it sporadically), but still, I don't think they deserve the respect that you and many others in the media give them.
I'm excited about Ruckert's and J. Johnson's development. I believe they're going to force Saleh to give them more playing time this season, and I'm looking for a big contribution from both of them.
Initially, I didn't realize that Duane Brown was going to miss almost all of TC. This is definitely a concern, especially with Becton having to work back slowly. Becton is looking better and better, thank God. He should be the starting LT and Brown the backup. I don't care about Brown's experience or that he played hurt last season. He hasn't practiced at all yet with Rodgers, in Hackett's new offense, with the switch to an inside zone run scheme, with his teammates, or under new OL Coach Carter. There's no chance that there could be any cohesion with Brown and Tomlinson and the rest of the OL.
Saleh should have known that Brown wasn't going to be available for TC, so it's a bit of a joke to claim that Becton was going to have to earn the LT spot and that there was going to be a competition. He may have only said that to motivate Becton to work harder. If so, fine, but I don't believe that Becton needed any push. He wants to play, he wants to play at a very high level, he wants his LT job back, and he wants to prove his detractors in the media and fanbase wrong. He has plenty of self motivation.
It's great that the Jets like Gipson so much, but Saleh should keep his mouth shut. I see no way that he's going to be able to make the 53 man roster, and his comments are only going to make it harder, if not impossible, for him to make it onto the Jets' PS. Because of his speed, he was already on other team's radar. He's a player I would dearly love for the Jets to be able to keep. That's why I hate that Hackett wants to keep a FB and Bawden will take a roster spot, when Ruckert, a backup LB, or an OL or DL could fill that position.
Regarding the difference between pass blocking efficiency numbers and PFF's grades; the difference is in the details. PFF, although I don't know exactly how they calculate those numbers (if that information was public, then how would PFF be able to price-gouge for their services?), is putting together a different metric than the pass blocking efficiency numbers that David referenced. The efficiency numbers are a great down-n-dirty way to determine whether a player got the job done, but it is more of a pass/fail system of grading. I imagine that PFF is trying to put together a statistic that tells you more than just whether a pressure was given up. You have to take into account assignment, down and distance, time of the game, what protection was called, etc.
For instance: you have three Joe Tippman reps that are pass plays.
The first play has a down and distance of 2nd and 3, was originally an inside zone but Rodgers checks at the LOS to a "now" screen to Garrett Wilson because the corner is playing off and the coverage looks like it is going to be 4 with no underneath man to Wilson's side.
The second play has a down and distance of 3rd and 5, was a three step drop and featured a half-slide. They slid away from the 3 technique, so Tippman has help on his back-side.
The third play has a down and distance of 3rd and 13, was a 7 step drop, and the protection was MOM (man-on-man) with no running back help, and Tippman and the right guard successfully pass off a delayed blitz from the inside linebacker.
Those three reps, if he doesn't give up a pressure, Tippman would've been considered to have "passed." They're all different, however, and have differing degrees of difficulty. The first, there is very little actual assignment for Tippman, as he probably isn't actually executing a true pass set and the defense isn't expecting the check at the line. The second is a little bit more difficult, but Tippman has backside help and, generally, slide protections provide less room for individual mistakes than MOM. The third rep, however, is the true outlier, because it features a number of different levels of Tippman's assignment that he'd need to execute to grade out well.
Apologies for the dense nerdy take on that, but although I don't come close to understanding PFF's ratings, I get what they're attempting to do.
Additionally, they ran a zone scheme last year, as well. The LaFluers come from the Shanahan coaching tree and all of those yahoos are heavy zone teams. Remember those Broncos teams from the 90s-early aughts? That's the model for all of the Shanahan offensive offshoots, these days. But, yes, I'd love to see Mekhi take the job. That would be a great development!!!
Thanks, Daniel. I understand what PFF is attempting to do, but I think that their algorithms are severely flawed. I've seen games where players had awesome games, were perfect or near perfect, and PFF gave them a grade of 60. I'm sorry, but imo, I don't care what their metric is, it's totally flawed when they give a player a grade of 60 when he played a flawless game.
I also know that the Jets have run a zone scheme the last two years, but I have to assume that there are some differences between an outside zone scheme and an inside zone scheme (which they've changed to for this season), be it spacing between the OL, or blocking assignments, or whatever. Maybe I'm wrong, but if there are no differences between the two, why not just call them zone run schemes, rather than Outside vs Inside Zone schemes?
I've only heard the stuff about the change in actual schemes a couple of times this off-season. Usually, a you'll be using inside and outside zone in tandem. The idea is to play with the flow of the defense going hard one way or slower to another depending on the success (or lack-thereof) certain runs. The spacing will be pretty wide with both inside and outside because you're, at the end of the day, trying to open up cutback lanes for the running back. The beauty of the zone is that those creases that you see open up aren't designed to hit in one specific place but can be wherever the defense isn't. That's how a JAG like Mike Anderson could put together Pro Bowl performances back in the day for Denver.
I saw a few interesting plays on Thursday that featured most of our offensive line zone blocking one way and us handing off in the other direction. I think it's possible that those were not, necessarily, simple zone plays, but I thought that was intriguing to see.
You're, actually, correct in that they're just seen as "zone schemes." What's kind of cool is that a guy like Aaron Rodgers can do a lot of things that Zach Wilson could never do with a zone scheme. I imagine that a lot of the RPO plays have been adjusted so that instead of an expected run option off of the main play (a la Lamar Jackson), you'll see more screen games on the front/back side of run plays. That'll be extra saucy for a dude like Mecole Hardman!
Another great day at The Jet Way David !! From now on I will be reserving judgement on anything until training camp and the pre-season are over and we see what the Jets are going into the season with, because you NEVER know what's going to happen day-to-day.
When Joe Douglas was hired, the Jets, without a question of a doubt had the worst roster in the NFL.
Here we are four years later, this team has come to the point where some position groups are over flowing with talent, this includes wr, te, defensive line/ edge, cornerback and running back once Breece Hall comes back. Not only are these position groups talented but they are probably faster than any previous Jet teams.
Though it is early, is it possible the starting safeties will be Adams and Dean, who really stepped it up Thursday night.
The fans clamored for KwanAlexander but if Sherwood’s performance on Thursday was the real indication of how much he has improved. Then you can see why Kwon wasn’t resigned. You also saw Surrett who never was mentioned once by any beat writer before the game, be very active. Barnes and Cherelus were also given significant playing time. Has the talent level of the linebacking crew really improved?
Lastly, the white elephant in the Jets locker room the offensive line. Aside from Rodgers, the most written about player during the offseason was/ has been Becton.
To eliminate the boredom of redundancy, no one can say who the starting 5 will be, because not everyone is healthy. This grouping has basically 4 weeks for the starting 5 to emerge.
Just to add fuel to the fire, the highest graded offensive lineman according to PFF against the Browns was Greg Senat from Wagner College, who????.
I bet David has no info or video of him, lol.
Lastly, cut down dates. This was probably the best kept secret of the off season.
In previous years, there were cutdown days after every preseason week to gradually trim rosters down from 90 to 53. That rule changed for 2023, as there's now just one date when teams must get to 53 players: Tuesday, Aug. 29.
Players can be traded or cut before Aug. 29, but there is no rule requiring teams to gradually make moves anymore. A team could theoretically carry 90 players throughout the entire preseason -- but it would then have to cut 37 players on the cut day.
Since this is the first year without multiple cut days, it's unclear how each team will handle the process of setting its regular season roster.
How many players are on an NFL team in 2023?
Teams are allowed to carry 90 players in the offseason, but rosters must be cut to 53 players by Aug. 29 and remain at that number throughout the season.
Despite having 53 players on the roster, only 48 are allowed to be active on game day.
In addition to the 53-man active roster, each club can carry up to 16 players on its regular season practice squad.
That’s it, time to go get a godd.. snack
Bobber, I couldn't agree more about the talent on our team and the job that JD has done in building the roster. That's why I find it so repugnant and ignorant when Jets fans talk about firing him if the team doesn't win this season. Many Jets fans are totally unrealistic in what it takes to build a roster and what it takes to develop players. They're so used to instant gratification and spoiled by it, that they think it applies everywhere, and it doesn't, especially not in football.
I don't think that there have been any records kept on it, but overall, this has to be the fastest Jets team ever. It's too bad that Mims and A. Davis never developed, because they are/were two of the fastest Jets, but losing them isn't going to hurt.
I would be surprised if Adams and Dean are the starting S duo, but not upset. Dean has really surprised me. I was concerned about his lack of foot speed, but sometimes player's instincts can make up for lack of foot speed, and some play faster than they time in the 40. Dean has been impressive so far, that's for certain.
Sherwood looked really good on Thursday night, and I see why the Jets didn't bring Kwon back. Surratt and Cheralus looked pretty good too. Barnes better watch out or he may be on the outside looking in.
I feel pretty safe in saying that Tomlinson and AVT will be the starters at OG. At this point, Becton should be considered the starter at LT if his conditioning is built up and his confidence in his knee is there. That means Mitchell would need to be the starter at RT. Turner has looked awful in TC. He's been beaten like a drum with regularity. There's no way that he should be even in the running for a starting position at this point. In fact, I think if it weren't for the fact that he knows the scheme so well and has experience with Hackett and Rodgers, and is so position versatile, he should have played his way off the roster by this point. He really needs to step it up over the next 3 weeks.
As you stated, I believe that many, if not most, will waive some players earlier so that they can possibly catch on with another team. The ones they hold onto are going to be the ones who are still in close competition for a roster spot or that the team wants to keep on their PS.
Hi Craig. I agree with you. Team sports particular football require patience. To develop a deep roster of quality players takes years. I think JD has done a very good job. We are almost there
Bobber, actually I believe the new cut down rule was instituted last year. Not sure of the particulars but there were significant cuts prior to that one day. I think that will happen this year as well.
Ron, no the one cut down day is new this year and was just approved a week or two ago. Last year they cut it from 3 cut down days to 2. This year they cut it to 1.
Craig, ah, no. After doing a little research the initial cuts (90 to 85) were ion August 16th last year. The 2nd waive was on Aug 23 ( 85 to 80) and the final cuts (85 to 53 came on Aug 30th! The amount of players cut early we significantly smaller but it was not all at once!
Ron, I didn't say that they were all at once last year. I said that was new for this year and it is. I read an article a week or so ago stating that last year the NFL had changed from 3 cutdown days to 2, and then to just 1 cutdown day this year, but can't find the article now. I just checked and read other articles, I see that the author of the initial article I read was mistaken. There were still 3 cutdown days last season. This year there will be only the one cutdown day.
hey guys, a HOF ceremony Great Moment -
Did it not just feel GREAT, when Klecko was up there, to hear our fans there just light up the place with the "Jay! Eee! Tee! eSS! JETS! JETS JETS!" chant? Honestly for that one, unforgettable moment, it really was like JetLife stadium.
And for the record, the fans really pulled it together for the chant for Joe... and not as powerful a chant for Darrelle. I guess we all know for certain who we Jets fans really love the most between the two, eh?
CGVet58
CG, I"m so mad at myself. I was going to watch Joe being inducted into the HOF on Saturday, and went out before that and started painting on my new shed, and totally forgot about it. I wound up painting for 6 hours. Still have quite a ways to go.
Yes, Lazard needs to hit the JUGS machine big time!
Kudos to you for quitting smoking cold turkey!!!! I'm so happy for you that you did that. 3 packs a day, wow! My dad had smoked for about 20 years, then quit. He lived to be 99. Even in the last years of his life after he had eaten a good meal, he said that he still had a craving for a cigarette. That's scary!!!
Yes, thank God we have Sauce. I think he's going to have a huge year and career if he can stay healthy.
I'm loving the Zach news.
IMO no team is going to offer an above average OT for Huff alone, much less with a 2nd round pick. That's a pipe dream. Huff should go nowhere. He's our best pass rusher. I noticed that Huff was up against Dawand Jones. Tough battle. I also noticed that several runs went to the outside where Huff should have been. I was disappointed to see that.
I wish that I had your confidence in Saleh, but I don't. I didn't like his comments about Tippman's performance in the game. I'm not sure how that is supposed to help Tippman. know that Saleh has confidence in him when he's surprised how well Tippman played.
Regarding cut down day, I don't think it's going to make it any harder on the team. At this point, they already know some players that aren't going to make the team. They know who the players are that could go either way and are starting to emerge, shine a little. They know who are close to making the team. They also know who they like on other teams that possibly may be cut. I think the only part of this that may be a little harder is that there will be so many players released at one time, and for any players that they claim, there won't be much time for those players to learn the new scheme and build any chemistry with their new team. I think this move was made in an attempt to keep so many players from changing teams. After a team drafts or signs a UDFA and spends time and $s developing them, they don't want to lose them. Any new players that are signed to a PS is one thing, but any that are signed to the active roster, probably will never contribute during the season unless they have played in the scheme or a very similar scheme before or are a very quick learner.
hey Craig!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E38DTnKL6Mc - Joe's HOF speech.
great speech, my kinda guy. Humble and Grateful. And it ends on a high note - the fans attending gave him the JETS chant and Craig, honestly, they were soooo loud it sounded like MetLife.
David, excellent job as always. Interesting you started todays mentioning Aaron Rodgers and his hand signals. As I’m reading I’m watching ESPN’s GET UP program. And there is C.J.Uzomah and Mecole Hardman talking about AR changing the hand signals from play to play🤷🏼♂️! I honestly don’t know what to make of the Zach Wilson practice results. We’ve seen this from Zach since his rookie season. It all seems to go south for him when the red practice Jersey’s come off. Obviously from a team standpoint it would be ideal for him to truly progress. But from a realistic standpoint I’m having trouble becoming a believer. It’s hard to shake the stank of his hideous performance vs Jacksonville and several other stinkers.
It's all about resilience, heart and desire, Ron. Some people have it, some don't. Some players have it, some don't. I may be proven wrong, but I believe with every fiber of my being that Zach has it and he is going to turn things around and develop into the player the Jets thought that they were getting when they drafted him #2. With better handling and coaching, I don't think Zach would have had to take the detour through the sewer, but who knows. Maybe that's what it took to bring out the best in him. Maybe he needed to work with/learn from Rodgers to reach his full potential. Things often happen the way they're supposed to happen and for the best.
Craig, hmmm, I wish I could agree with you. I just haven’t seen any of the attributes you mentioned with Zach. The most troubling issues for me is the inability to play well under pressure. I agree courage and perseverance are key elements to good QB play. But when you finish dead last in your only two years in the league under pressure it’s obvious to this old fool that those are the exact two attributes he lacks!
Ron, I believe that you're wrong. He does not lack those attributes. Did you watch any of Zach's games at BYU? It doesn't sound as if you did. I don't see how you could have watched many and come up with the blanket statements that you're throwing around about what attributes he lacks and what he isn't capable of doing.
I watched every single one of his games that were/are available on the internet. I read scouting report, interview, everything I could about him. I watched every video where former NFL QBs, scouting services, and others broke down the tape on him and showed his strengths and weaknesses. None of what you toss out as Zach's negatives were ever mentioned, and I never saw those negatives in his play. He was a totally different player his last season at BYU than he was last year. Zach didn't start out bad his rookie season. He got worse as games progressed, got injured, then showed improvement when he came back, but was no longer playing like he did his last year at BYU. I don't know for certain what was the root of his problems, but it seemed like he was having to think too much, trying not to make mistakes, pressing, trying to adapt to what MLF and Saleh and the WCO were demanding of him, but he didn't have the right footwork and still hadn't developed the mindset he needed. He was being asked to play at a high level, carry the team, while changing his mindset about how he played, and working on changing his footwork, while frequently having to run for his life when he dropped back to pass because our OL was so bad, and then he had a ton of his passes dropped his rookie season. One thing I believe for certain, if a player has a talent/skill at something, they just don't lose it. I don't believe that Zach lost the ability to play at a high level and succeed in the NFL. He showed that ability at BYU, and we've seen glimpses of that in the NFL. IMO he just needs to get over whatever it is that's been standing in the way of his talent/ability.
He was rated so highly for a reason. JD isn't Mac or Idzik. Look at the talent he has assembled on this team. Even with Zach's prodigious arm talent, he wouldn't have taken Zach if Zach didn't have the right mental makeup to succeed in the NFL.
Also, we all know that people learn and change much more easily when they're young than when they're old. Zach is still only 22 or 23. Most people that age are resilient, and if they want to learn something or change, and are willing to work hard enough, they can and do learn or change. Can you imagine what it must have been like to be a somewhat immature young kid to be drafted #2 in the NFL draft, to have all the pressure of being a franchise's "savior" and performing in front of millions of fans, with lousy coaching, and no real support at age 21? I can't even begin to imagine that. I know that I sucked at most of what I did at that age, and I didn't have any real pressure on me to do my best. Zach's struggles the last 2 years are partly due to his immaturity and failings to succeed under pressure, but imo are much more about the failings of JD, Saleh, and MLF than they are Zach's. IMO Zach didn't have good coaching and the right environment that would have enabled him to succeed. The team knows that. That's why MLF is no longer with the team, Hackett is, and Rodgers, and the team hasn't given up on him.
There are a lot of different factors that can affect how players play in the NFL. They're human. They aren't supermen with rock solid, unshakeable confidence levels, with no emotions, no fears, no doubts. A perfect example of that is Tristan Wirfs. He is moving to LT this season. He just admitted that he is having to see the team Sports Psychologist because he's eaten up with fears and doubts about succeeding at LT. It also turns out that he had those about playing RT. Somehow he was still able to play at a very high level with those fears and doubts. For whatever reason Zach didn't play well with what he was dealing with, but Zach also had a lot more working against him, and playing QB is much harder than playing RT.
Hey David! Hey Jets-Bruddas!!!
Lazard + Drops = JUGGS MACHINE! Get to it, Hombre!
Ahhh, Sauce... I thank the Football gods in the sky that Houston chose Derek Stingley jr - I really thought they were going to pick Sauce. They didn't, and I get to thank the gods frequently, just like I thank God everytime I see someone smoking for helping me to quit smoking 20 years ago (before the birth of my son). I was a three-pack-a-day smoker... Aaand was still running 3 miles on sandy beaches with my Akita (I told you guys my elevator sometimes doesn't make it to the top floor...). No patch, no pills, I quit Cold Turkey. Just Prayer and Single Malt Scotch (Bowmores 15 year Darkest). Thank you, Lord (... and Thank You again for making me a Jets Fan 4 Life)! And David, I luv the "... Sauce Gardner did Sauce Gardner things..." - that's a keeper, man. I might just get a shirt made with that phrase, change the did to "does" - now THAT would be an eye catcher, eh?
Good news on Zach, great to hear. It's like shooting - slow is smooth; and smooth is fast. Keep on working on that, Zach. Trust your O-Line, and step up into the storm of the pass rush. If that technique is good enough for Brady the GOAT (who seriously is a statue slogging through mud when he moves sideways...) then it's good enough for you.
Huff. Yes I can see your point, don't get trade him! BUT - what if... someone offers an above average OT capable of playing the left side... AND a Two?? Respectfully, my English friend - I'm jumpin' on that like a herd of Locusts that finds a nice, freshly mown natural grass field. Also, on Huff's stats - I saw him taking on the GOT Mountain guy straight up, not really jukin' him alot. It looked like he was playing "4" technique, where I think he would've gotten more out of playing a "5". Maybe his primary assignment was to contain vice penetrate? Cause he left alot of space on that guy's right shoulder during several pass rush attempts. Just sayin'.
Agree with your Tippman appraisal, and your appraisal of screetchy paranoid Jets fans (thankfully a small but albeit loud minority). Like Zach's approach - slow is smooth and smooth is fast. Saleh knows what he's doing. Figure on Joe working his way up to taking snaps with 1st team throughout the rest of the preseason. I wouldn't count him out as a potential starter by week two just yet. (not week one vs the Bills, on MNF - talk about adrenalin rush!). Excellent vids, as my eyes can't catch this on the TV. The flipping of his hips - amazin'. How big is this guy, 6'6", 300+ pounds? And he can move like that? Yeah, I'm not worried about him coming along - I double down on him, and say he'll be starting by week two (absent any unforeseen events requiring other things on the line of course...).
Last mention, on Bobber's (ya got here first this AM, B!!! ooo-RAAHHH!!!) post earlier this morning. Cutdown dates changed to one date, Aug 29th.
> Pro: Gives guys that are on the bubble and who would've been cut sooner in earlier years, more reps, more of a chance to let the game come to them, then "click" - the light turns on and something special happens. Diamonds in the rough; showing a newly polished facet and promising more.
> Con: it's going to make deciding who to cut a helluva lot harder on the staff.
> Side-benefit Pro: Gives JD and our excellent scouting staff a potentially great opportunity to look at other teams, find other similar rough diamonds on those teams and keep a running board (like a dynamic draft board) on these guys to see who gets cut. Because there are 31 other teams, and they, too, will have similar players blossoming - but they won't be able to keep everyone they want, either. JD & crew have shown they can take advantage of this - as long as the names involved aren't Davis & Pinnock. A fans request to JD: if you're doing this - and you should be - focus on the OLine and OTs - please!
Second Last Mention (really): Bobber, I think with the addition of a 17th game to the schedule, the NFL should expand rosters to 55. What do you think?
CGVet58
CGV, I have the best quit smoking story ever. I went to a very strict Catholic high school in Brooklyn, but grew up in Coney Island in the mid-to-late 1950's. Back then if you didn't smoke by the age of 11 you were a pansy. Plus I was the oldest looking one so I bought the butts. By the time I was in high school I was a pack-a-day smoker, Chestefield's. The school had an exclusion zone where you couldn't be caught doing banned stuff, like smoking or going into a local candy store that sold porn mags. When I took the bus to school, I and one of my friends would get off 3 or 4 stops early and smoke before going in. The assistant principal/dean of discipline, Brother Kyrin Powers (I'll never forget him), used to drive around before school to see if any of us miscreants were breaking the rules, lol. One morning my friend and I were walking and got lost in the clouds. All of a sudden, we heard a car pull to the curb and a voice that sounded like rocks rolling down a mountain said "Gentlemen, ditch those butts and get in the car !". Brother Kyrin was NOT your typical lay brother, he was an ex-Marine who had served for 16 years and was a Korean War vet. He was about 6'4" and 245 pounds and was VERY impressive. Even the mob guys whose sons went to the school were intimidated by him. But he was very fair and wasn't someone who used his position to be a tyrant, just a USMC drill instructor, lol. Long story short, I got suspended and they called my parents to come to school. My dad, who was NYPD, had just gotten off a 12-8 shift and came to get me. When we went home, he said where are the cigarettes ? I had 5 packs and went to give them to him and he said, "No, go by the kitchen window and smoke them all !" I did, and I never touched another cigarette again, right up until today. I smoked other things, lol, cigars and once a pipe, but never inhaled another cigarette again. That was over 60 years ago.
Great story, Mike!
You really had to be there. There were always stories about Brother Kyrin, he was a no-nonsense kind of guy. One time he caught one of the mob kids cheating on a Regents exam and stormed in and dragged the student AND the desk together out of the classroom and the kid was stupid, or arrogant, enough to take a swing at him. He just whipped the kid from one side of the corridor to the other a couple of times where the student lockers were, lol. They called the kid's father, who I knew of from Coney Island and was a captain in Joe Profaci's family. He came in and the kid started whining about what happened and his father shut him up with a finger point. He asked Brother Kyrin what happened and was shown the cheat sheet sewn into the lining of the kid's sport jacket. lol. His father looked at him, then told Brother Kyrin to hit him again and gave permission to brother Kyrin to do what he had to do to straighten him out. Unfortunately, the dad had some issues of his own, and a year or two later he went to a meeting and never came back. He had left his wallet, ring and watch home so he knew what was up. About 30+ years later, the FBI found his remains under the concrete floor of a former "social club" on Columbia Street in Brooklyn after a phoned-in tip. They found the remains of about 7 or 8 men who had vanished years earlier. Sad, but it was the life they led. That story comes up at every reunion like clockwork.
P.S. - The son ended up down the wrong road and did 16 years in a fed lockup for conspiracy connected to the Pizza Connection investigation.
shit Mike, I was only stationed in Italy for 3 years, but bud - you got to see the Goombahs up close. You were practically connected LOL.
But I'll tell ya, those old time guys like that, that's what I saw growin up, what influenced me and every other kid on the block. Stand up guys, you know? Tough for sure, but they always looked out for the neighborhood kids.
I grew up in Washington Heights, till 6th grade. My childhood to that point?
Like reruns of spanky and our gang. Mischief, but no trouble, just kids stuff.
Then, when my Dad moved us out to long island ( Lon - GYland is the correct pronunciation, ahem...) in 1970. I didn't want to leave, what kid does? But then, going back a few years later, a bit older and maybe a bit smarter, I could already see what heroin had done to the neighborhood. And Coke. elementary school friends of mine that we used to play in the streets, hang out - drug dealers, strung out or a couple dead. Totally F'd up - and my Dad got us out of that.
There used to be a magazine, LIFE, always had a front cover pic of something relevant to the times. During the crack epidemic, mid-80's, i remember a cover with a street corner in NY. hundreds of the little plastic vials strewn on the curb and street. The top of the pic showed the cross section - Broadway and 177th street, in Manhattan.
I used to live on 177th and St Nicholas Ave - two blocks away.
There but for the Grace of God, Mike...
Great stories. nice to know there are fans here who know where I come from and vice versa.
CGVet58
When I lived in Coney Island, my grandfather's house was right next door to the Riviera Caterers, which has been run by the same family since before 1920. I always knew the family name as Zack, it was probably longer, but I don't remember it. They were always good to my grandfather, watched out for him and would always send food over, manicotti, ravioli, tortoni, the usual guinea stuff. Now they were definitely mobbed up right from the beginning right up until today, and they are about the only building in Coney Island that was NEVER vandalized or had graffiti on it. On the other side of my grandpa Tony's house was the garage for Bay Ridge Carting, another associated operation, the owner was Angelo Mondrone. he also took good care of my grandpa and used to take him when he went to make collections. Occasionally, there were times he would tell him, stay home today, I don't want you involved. Then down a little further was the house that the King of the Gypsies for Coney Island and Brighton Beach. So I got to know a lot of people in different situations. There was a salumeria on Neptune Avenue that was owned by Nino Russo, who eventually bought the restaurant Garguilo's, also in Coney Island, that his family still owns after more than 40 years. Everyone knew everyone else and took care of each other's kids and watched out for them. I'm sure up to a certain point it was like that in parts of upper Manhattan and the Bronx, especially by Arthur Avenue. But it was a different time. One more funny story. My mom was born inn 1920. When she was around 12 or 13, she was with my grandpa talking to the owners at Garguilo's when a couple of men came by to sit and talk. Now this was when Coney Island was the summer hangout spot for the mob guys. While my grandpa was talking Andy Zack, one of the three men was talking to my mom very nicely and politely. When the men left, one went to my grandpa and told him to make sure my mom goes to college, because she was so smart she could become a lawyer. That man was Albert Anastasia, The Mad Hatter, and the other two were the Prime Minister, Frank Costello and Joe Adonis, three of the top guys in La Cosa Nostra. And this was only two years after Joe The Boss Masseria was shot and killed in Scarpato's Restaurant in Coney Island by Joe Adonis and two of his men, which has been shown in so many movies and films. The hit was ordered by Salvatore Lucania a/k/a Charley Lucky Luciano. Unfortunately, my mom never went to college, though she did finish high school and worked in the war industries in WW II before she met my dad and got married. She was the smartest woman I've ever seen and we all joke about her being a high-powered lawyer like Gloria Allred, a CEO or a great mob boss. She could have done all those things and more. Another time I'll tell you about a very interesting wake I went to and who was there. Enjoy Lon-Gyland !!!! my cousin has lived in Central Islip for over 40 years and I'm there fairly often.
Wow!
Yeah, truth can be better than fiction in that circle. I grew up with a lot of mob kids and one of them still runs the neighborhood in Coney Island today. One block had all of them living on it. West 16th Street between Neptune Avenue and Hart Place. I was born one block over on West 15th Street.
Whoa! I'm not sure I would have liked that.
that is a hellaciously good story, bud! I'll betcha got wretched sick fm smokin all them at one shot - and like a puppy stickin it's nose to close to a fire, ya never ever went back to doin it!
My mouth felt like Godzilla's butthole.
First, I'm thankful that Rodgers toe injury wasn't more serious, none of the injuries that happened in the practice yesterday are serious, and that those who were injured in the game on Thursday night weren't more serious. I pray that no one on either team will get hurt in this week's practice and game vs Carolina. I hope that Cheralus and Surratt are back soon, because they need the reps and we're going to need them this season.
Sauce's vision, recognition of where the pass was going, his speed and play on the ball were awesome yesterday. I'm looking for quite a few interceptions from him this season, and if he doesn't go on to have a HOF career (if he can stay healthy) will be a total shock.
Zach is looking better and better. I'm looking forward to seeing him in the game this Saturday. I'm truly looking forward to all his detractors and haters having to eat crow.
Yes, accountability is something that's been lacking on the Jets for a very long time. That's one of the things I'm most excited about with Rodgers here. I believe that Hardman and he will get on the same page, and that everyone else on offense will take notice of this, and step up their mental work, so they don't screw up.
I couldn't possibly agree more about not trading Bryce Huff. IMO without a doubt, at present he is our best pass rusher. Period. I don't care that he's just a role player. He has more success in terms of pressures, hits and sacks in his limited snaps than any of our other Edges. The Jets need to find a way to keep him long term.
One can see the chemistry and connection building between Rodgers and all of his receivers, regardless of their position. It's exciting! The drops need to stop. I'm looking at you Lazard!!! Davis needs to continue to hold onto the ball and stay healthy.
I hate that Bawden is earning a spot on the roster and becoming a big part of the offense. Nothing personal against him, but it's going to mean that one or more of Brownlee, Gipson, Yeboah, Kuntz, Cheralus, and CB backups aren't going to make the team. Either that, or the Jets wind up keeping only 8 OL or only 9 DL. It's going to hurt another position group, possibly two. He's a nice player, but not nearly as talented as some of those young players we will lose. If he does make the roster, he'd better play his ass off.
I didn't like Saleh's comment that he was surprised that Tippman played well in the game. I find it hard to believe that Tippman has been that bad in practice that it would be surprising that he played so well in the game. I think Saleh is biased towards McGovern, and he lets his personal likes and biases overrule his better judgment. I hope I'm wrong, but with comments he has made this and his previous seasons that seems to be the case. I hope that Tippman plays lights out this week, in practices during the rest of TC and Saleh is forced to start Tippman. I think he will give the OL the best, most consistent play, and the best protection for Rodgers.
David, the stats you quoted from PFF on Tippman are precisely why I think PFFs ratings are a joke. He had a 100% pass blocking efficiency, yet he only earned an 82.9 grade for pass protection? That's completely illogical and absurd imo. I realize that they're the only game in town that does that type of grading (X Factor only does it sporadically), but still, I don't think they deserve the respect that you and many others in the media give them.
I'm excited about Ruckert's and J. Johnson's development. I believe they're going to force Saleh to give them more playing time this season, and I'm looking for a big contribution from both of them.
Initially, I didn't realize that Duane Brown was going to miss almost all of TC. This is definitely a concern, especially with Becton having to work back slowly. Becton is looking better and better, thank God. He should be the starting LT and Brown the backup. I don't care about Brown's experience or that he played hurt last season. He hasn't practiced at all yet with Rodgers, in Hackett's new offense, with the switch to an inside zone run scheme, with his teammates, or under new OL Coach Carter. There's no chance that there could be any cohesion with Brown and Tomlinson and the rest of the OL.
Saleh should have known that Brown wasn't going to be available for TC, so it's a bit of a joke to claim that Becton was going to have to earn the LT spot and that there was going to be a competition. He may have only said that to motivate Becton to work harder. If so, fine, but I don't believe that Becton needed any push. He wants to play, he wants to play at a very high level, he wants his LT job back, and he wants to prove his detractors in the media and fanbase wrong. He has plenty of self motivation.
It's great that the Jets like Gipson so much, but Saleh should keep his mouth shut. I see no way that he's going to be able to make the 53 man roster, and his comments are only going to make it harder, if not impossible, for him to make it onto the Jets' PS. Because of his speed, he was already on other team's radar. He's a player I would dearly love for the Jets to be able to keep. That's why I hate that Hackett wants to keep a FB and Bawden will take a roster spot, when Ruckert, a backup LB, or an OL or DL could fill that position.
Mornin' ya'll,
Regarding the difference between pass blocking efficiency numbers and PFF's grades; the difference is in the details. PFF, although I don't know exactly how they calculate those numbers (if that information was public, then how would PFF be able to price-gouge for their services?), is putting together a different metric than the pass blocking efficiency numbers that David referenced. The efficiency numbers are a great down-n-dirty way to determine whether a player got the job done, but it is more of a pass/fail system of grading. I imagine that PFF is trying to put together a statistic that tells you more than just whether a pressure was given up. You have to take into account assignment, down and distance, time of the game, what protection was called, etc.
For instance: you have three Joe Tippman reps that are pass plays.
The first play has a down and distance of 2nd and 3, was originally an inside zone but Rodgers checks at the LOS to a "now" screen to Garrett Wilson because the corner is playing off and the coverage looks like it is going to be 4 with no underneath man to Wilson's side.
The second play has a down and distance of 3rd and 5, was a three step drop and featured a half-slide. They slid away from the 3 technique, so Tippman has help on his back-side.
The third play has a down and distance of 3rd and 13, was a 7 step drop, and the protection was MOM (man-on-man) with no running back help, and Tippman and the right guard successfully pass off a delayed blitz from the inside linebacker.
Those three reps, if he doesn't give up a pressure, Tippman would've been considered to have "passed." They're all different, however, and have differing degrees of difficulty. The first, there is very little actual assignment for Tippman, as he probably isn't actually executing a true pass set and the defense isn't expecting the check at the line. The second is a little bit more difficult, but Tippman has backside help and, generally, slide protections provide less room for individual mistakes than MOM. The third rep, however, is the true outlier, because it features a number of different levels of Tippman's assignment that he'd need to execute to grade out well.
Apologies for the dense nerdy take on that, but although I don't come close to understanding PFF's ratings, I get what they're attempting to do.
Additionally, they ran a zone scheme last year, as well. The LaFluers come from the Shanahan coaching tree and all of those yahoos are heavy zone teams. Remember those Broncos teams from the 90s-early aughts? That's the model for all of the Shanahan offensive offshoots, these days. But, yes, I'd love to see Mekhi take the job. That would be a great development!!!
Daniel
Thanks, Daniel. I understand what PFF is attempting to do, but I think that their algorithms are severely flawed. I've seen games where players had awesome games, were perfect or near perfect, and PFF gave them a grade of 60. I'm sorry, but imo, I don't care what their metric is, it's totally flawed when they give a player a grade of 60 when he played a flawless game.
I also know that the Jets have run a zone scheme the last two years, but I have to assume that there are some differences between an outside zone scheme and an inside zone scheme (which they've changed to for this season), be it spacing between the OL, or blocking assignments, or whatever. Maybe I'm wrong, but if there are no differences between the two, why not just call them zone run schemes, rather than Outside vs Inside Zone schemes?
I've only heard the stuff about the change in actual schemes a couple of times this off-season. Usually, a you'll be using inside and outside zone in tandem. The idea is to play with the flow of the defense going hard one way or slower to another depending on the success (or lack-thereof) certain runs. The spacing will be pretty wide with both inside and outside because you're, at the end of the day, trying to open up cutback lanes for the running back. The beauty of the zone is that those creases that you see open up aren't designed to hit in one specific place but can be wherever the defense isn't. That's how a JAG like Mike Anderson could put together Pro Bowl performances back in the day for Denver.
I saw a few interesting plays on Thursday that featured most of our offensive line zone blocking one way and us handing off in the other direction. I think it's possible that those were not, necessarily, simple zone plays, but I thought that was intriguing to see.
You're, actually, correct in that they're just seen as "zone schemes." What's kind of cool is that a guy like Aaron Rodgers can do a lot of things that Zach Wilson could never do with a zone scheme. I imagine that a lot of the RPO plays have been adjusted so that instead of an expected run option off of the main play (a la Lamar Jackson), you'll see more screen games on the front/back side of run plays. That'll be extra saucy for a dude like Mecole Hardman!
Daniel
Thanks!
Another great day at The Jet Way David !! From now on I will be reserving judgement on anything until training camp and the pre-season are over and we see what the Jets are going into the season with, because you NEVER know what's going to happen day-to-day.