Unfortunately, I couldn't agree with you more David, especially about Cook, Engstram and the O-line. In just about every other game I watch, teams scheme up receivers so they run free and it becomes an easy pitch and catch. . .but not the Jets of course. Where are the crossers? The double moves? The use of motion? Here's one: how about executing a rub route one or twice a season, especially in the red zone?!? Or misdirection. Tanner does NONE of that and we NEVER see Jet receivers getting Yac. Everything is a curl route ( which New Orleans was all over) or to the sidelines.
And I agree too about the O-line. They have regressed considerably of late. Jets can't run the ball effectively, and their pass blocking-especially against pressure-is brutal. Brady looked terrible yesterday, Mitchie has disappeared.
And Simpson should be in the anti Ring of Honor for ALWAYS getting stupid penalties at the most inopportune times: 3rd and short, Jets a a first down on a sneak, but that's negated because that dope gets a 15 yarder for a chop block. I have literally never seen that on a QB sneak. So in addition to 'the same old Jets', we should create a new category called 'only the Jets'. See Butt fumble, 15 games w/o an interception chop block on a QB sneak. . .' They are PATHETIC.
I think the discussion about Engstrand not running the right plays is overblown. Teams who are able to scheme up receivers open aren't getting those receivers open by simply calling a specific play or pattern. I also don't think it's necessarily true that he isn't calling certain patterns. Was it really the case that the Jets simply didn't run any crossers, rubs, or double moves (I'm less worried about them not calling double moves....those require 5 or 7 step drops that would've been tough to pull off unless they got the ground game going and slowed the pass rush)? I'm skeptical. For one, calling certain route concepts requires a certain down and distance and I don't think the Jets successfully got themselves into position to open up the playbook. They have to be able to run and execute the simple stuff in order to open up larger parts of the playbook. They didn't do that.
I get that it's appealing to think that had the Jets just called better plays, they'd have played better. The reality is that their offense, at the moment, is rarely executing even the simplest plays. Some of this has to do with the perimeter players playing poorly, which has to do with those players having not been on the team very long. They're all still learning and digesting the playbook, which is probably resulting in Engstrand working with even less of the playbook than normal. It means there are certain concepts and plays that can only be run out of certain formations, personnels, or sets. It's, honestly, the plight of a bad team that has had a lot of turnover. It's a chicken/egg scenario. Were they always this bad? Unlikely. The team, however, is drastically different than it was in training camp and the playbook has had to be pared down considerably because of the amount of turnover on the offense. You try to lean on strengths, but the fact that defenses know your team's strengths means that adjustments are made in order to react to defenses. It simply isn't working. I think most coordinators, in this position, would fail to produce a productive offense in this situation. They're working with depleted talent, a discombobulated group of skill players, and a fair deal of variance and change. Put Sean McVay in Tanner Engstrand's shoes and he probably struggles similarly. It's just a situation where the offense is probably going to be bad no matter what.
Sorry, Daniel, but while there's probably some truth to what you say about the Jets players not being able to execute the simple parts of the Jets; offense, I don't believe or agree that McVay or a more experienced OC would still be having the same problems. I think that Engstrand is part of the problem, perhaps a big part.
It's totally possible that Engstrand isn't a good coordinator right now. Technically, part of what I'm saying is that Engstrand needs to improve more parts of his ability as a coordinator that have nothing to do with play calling or getting certain players the ball. The entire offense is executing poorly and is regularly on different pages depending on the position group. Everybody has to be on the same page and doing the same thing at the same time for a play to work. That takes a lot of coordination and communication. It's also easier to do in college when there is more room for individual performances to mask mistakes.
If anything, THAT problem with rooting out mistakes and improving communication is a far bigger issue than what plays he is calling. We get too focused on the end result (what play is called) rather than giving enough time to considering the intricacies of how a play is executed and how many things can go wrong and cause a play to fail.
Well said on lack of crossing routes, which is the way to create separation. Jets only run very basic vertical routes and horizontal routes at line of scrimmage. It is like watching a high school team. Nothing deep or crosses over the middle. Aaron’s comment on Cook after the game was about can’t allow turnovers. Really? That’s what you got out of that performance? His pick was well after the game of over. I wish he had more turnovers based on some aggression in getting rid of the ball. And some pocket movement vs looking to run after any pressure. Cook was coached to avoid mistakes, which is the worst way to coach a QB. Huge issue with AG at this point. He owns this mess now.
Douglas, it could be Glenn and it could be Engstrand coaching not to make mistakes. I think that's why Fields regressed and just stood there so often. IMO that has to be on Engstrand or London constantly reinforcing that, rather than saying, "Go out there and wing it, and don't worry." Of course with the Jets' D being so bad, a TO is devastation because usually it leads to a TD, but still a QB cannot play afraid. Excellent point!
Another unwatchable debacle. Absolutely nothing good came out of this disgraceful performance other than maintaining our draft position. I have to agree with David on AG and Engstrand not looking like a part of the future. I really wanted to believe but I need a reason to.
A lot of Jets fans have said that they think Simpson should be re-signed/extended, but I disagree. His play has been too inconsistent, and usually bad this season. Replace him in FA, and sign better depth.
I agree on Engstrand. I was encouraged earlier in the year. I don't often get to see the games because my local CBS affiliate never carries the Jets. So I can't see a lot of the specifics that the rest of you do, but in reading all of your reports, it has become clear to me that Engstrand isn't good enough. Glenn and his whole CS need to be fired into sun, including the lone holdover on the CS Jefferson. Woody probably won't do anything, but I hope that if both the Bills and the Patriots backups blow the Jets out the next two weeks, that will do it and Woody, will see that a change has to be made. Mougey has done a good job. He should get to hire the next HC.
Quite pathetic performance. Let's hope Dante Moore comes out, which would give us another option. I really don't want to give up any draft capital. We have so many needs.
Well today I saw Santa at the zoo, took part in a snow party and attended a magic show. At two of those things I had to dance, which is not something that comes overly natural to this man, but the kids loved it and I don't mind looking like a fool if it makes them happy.
A "snow party" in England usually means an alpine-themed event (like an après-ski party) with fake snow, DJs, winter drinks (mulled wine), and activities, often for Christmas or corporate parties, or it can refer to kids' birthday parties at indoor ski slopes with sledging/donutting. It's a way to get a snowy winter vibe without actual deep snow, which is relatively rare in the UK.
The QB was awful. He can’t go back out there again. Agree on Tanner wrt scheme, but Cook had zero pocket presence and refused to throw downfield. And could not/would not get rid of the football. The lack of downfield passing may go back to AG lack of aggression on O, no idea. But AG is not looking good at this point. Jets cannot have another defensive HC who is totally incompetent in running the O. Breece actually played well btw. And the D hung in there for quite awhile.
Yeah that's not the Brady Cook that i enjoyed watching at Missouri or even the Brady Cook that I enjoyed watching when he first came in as relief for Tyrod. Seems to me that he was completely in his own head about turnovers and as a result he was gun shy to push the ball, he moved to his check down far too quickly and the pocket presence was completely missing. I'm not sure if we'll see him again this season, but if we do I'd rather see him be himself rather than this conservative shell.
He DEFINITELY was checking down more than you usually see. We've discussed this before, but I think there is probably something to be said for receivers being in the right place at the right time. That includes running routes with the right pace, at the right depth, from the right alignment, etc. I think that when a young quarterback looks downfield and doesn't see guys where he expects to see them, he'll start second-guessing his reads. Engstrand, likely, has a sound gameplan. The problem has been getting that gameplan executed correctly, which goes more to Engstrand's ability to manage his position coaches and getting all of the players in the right place doing the right thing at the right time. Having so many players who are still in their first or second month on the team probably exacerbates the problem.
I think you're probably on to something with regards to Engstrand not being able to manage his position coaches, but that's a big part of the job at which he is failing.
I don't get the impression that Aaron Glenn is behind the scenes telling Tanner Engstrand to not push the ball down field or to call certain kinds of plays. Glenn has seemed like a guy who trusts the dudes he hired. What I saw during the game was a young, inexperienced quarterback who didn't trust what he saw from the defense. If I had to guess, I'd say that the game plan was to attempt to lean on the running game and the short passing game to pick up some YAC. Starting an undrafted rookie free agent who has so little time working with the starters suggests a game plan that limits the amount of times they ask him to drop back and make too many reads. I think that kind of matches what I saw. Unforunately, the offensive line didn't look great and the execution out of the skill players looked sloppy. It makes sense considering nearly the entire receiving corp and the starting quarterback weren't on the team in camp. The combination of inexperience and a bunch of guys who haven't played together results in sloppy (and ineffective) play.
I agree with much of this, Daniel, especially that Glenn is telling Engstrand not to throw the ball downfield, but how do you explain how Cook and the receivers looked better in his other games? With more time working together in practice, things should be getting better, not worse.
and that AG's comment after the game was all about Cook's turnovers, which were meaningless relative to his overall poor performance. my major concern is AG is falling into the trap other new Jet defensive minded HC's fall into - conservative mistake free offense and strong D will somehow win games.
I think teams are going to more often than not preach to young quarterbacks to not take unnecessary risks. That is especially true for younger unestablished quarterbacks because they have less experience and underlying know-how to fall back on. They're still trying to establish a consistent level of play and good habits. I don't mind coaches instilling that mentality of limiting turnover-worthy plays. The key is balancing it with taking good risks. That's hard to do, though.
Precisely, Daniel. Finding balance is hard, and imo NFL HCs and OCs make the mistake of talking too much about mistake avoidance. We all know that players don't play their best, and in fact, are MORE likely to make a mistake when they're trying not to make a mistake. IMO you have to let the young players play and make mistakes, those are learning opportunities. One can point out what caused that interception or fumble. Was it something fundamental or technique wise? Was it a bad decision? Did he misread the D? QBs have to be like CBs when they get burned. Forget about it and move on to the next play. Constantly drilling into a QB's head not to turn the ball over can ruin them. I think that's part of Darnold and Zach failed so badly with the Jets. I don't think any QB likes committing interceptions. Favre never learned. He was still making dumb rookie mistakes the last year of his career. Jameis Winston, seemingly hasn't learned, either, but because that wasn't drilled into their head (or they ignored it), they were able to keep playing at a high level. I think an NFL focusing on that with a young QB is dumb mistake that will ruin the young QB. The longer I watch the NFL, the dumber I think their coaches are.
I'm not particularly surprised by players in this environment hitting a wall. Most of these skill players are still learning the offense, Cook and the rest of these skill guys have had very little tape (therefore, defenses in the previous two games didn't have as much to study), and they're beginning to attmempt to make adjustments. Adjustments can result in guys getting out of rythym because they're changing things about how they play.
Essentially, it's not surprising to me that as teams get more tape on Cook and this newer-look offense, they'll become more successful stopping this offense. They need to keep practicing and not get too flustered by the poor results. It's like a young hitter in baseball establishing himself in the league but not getting results. The results doesn't necessarily mean the overall approach is bad. If he changes the approach before results come, it can result in regression because he's switched from a healthier approach to attempt to juice numbers. It's all a balancing act.
If there is one thing we learn as adults is that we should never let emotions rule what we say, think or write. That we should calm down for a while, relax, and orderly collect our thoughts.
Last week, Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk fame insinuated that Glenn could be one and done.
Well it is approximately, 1 1/2 minutes since the end of that debacle that was called an NFL game, I have calmed down, collected my thoughts and I tend to agree with Florio.
The 3-11 Jets entered the game against 4-10 Saints who were starting a rookie quarterback Tyler Shough.
By the time the final whistle blew, the Saints appeared to be a 10-5 team. The rookie quarterback had his first 300 yard game passing. We can’t blame Wilks this time for that performance.
The Saints marched into every game this year averaging 2 sacks a game, they happily marched out to Bourbon Street yesterday after amassing 8 sacks.
Here we are into the Jets 15th game and Glenn’s calling timeouts as the Saints are marching in for first half ending score. He gave the Saints another chance for a score after the Jets went 3 and out as he was calling timeouts letting the first half be extended for the Saints. He still hasn’t learned a thing about the two minute drill
The Jet’s offensive line coach played tight end in college and the pros, it really shows. The offensive line played today as if this was their first time together.
The quarterback coach played running back in the pros and based on what we have seen from Fields and now Cook it shows he was a running back.
These assistants along with Wilks were all Glenn’s decisions
Cook looked horrible yesterday but did Engstrand really help him.
Do the Jets ever throw on first down to start a drive.
Does he ever call pass patterns that exceed 5 yards.
Cook was constantly called upon to pass in 3rd and 7 and 3rd and eight situations. As the game continued, Cook looked cooked. He started to hold onto the ball too long, he was hesitating,Fields must have been proud.
Didn’t it appear that every Jet receiver was covered on every play while the Saint receivers were running around undaunted.
At the end of the first half, Brady Cook's average air yards per attempt in the first half, per TruMedia:
0.7 yards.
Yes, you're reading that right.
Right now, Glenn and Pete Carroll appear to be the worse of all the new HCs.
Did some of the new HCs luck out by inheriting quality quarterbacks, yes indeed but how does the rest of their teams look and play.
Kellen Moore drafted Slough, would you rather have him as HC over Glenn.
Remember Glenn couldn’t sign Fields fast enough the first day of free agency and then anointed him the starter almost immediately. So his quarterback situation is on him and is not all JD and Saleh’s fault.
Does any Jet fan who has been watching this debacle of a season really trust Glenn.
Does any Jet fan really think he can be successful.
Does any Jet fan really want him in the draft room with all those picks.
It would appear that Mougey is a keeper but can the same be said about Glenn.
If you thought today was a nightmare just wait for the last two games on the schedule. The Jets will be facing both the Pats and the Bills who are both fighting for the division title and/ or playoffs
Will Glenn be fired, very doubtful.
Should Glenn be fired, probably.
Should Glenn have been hired, it appears definitely not.
Bobber, I never wanted Glenn. I didn't like him when he played for the Jets, and he was always going to have to win me over. He hasn't. He's done some things right focusing on tackling and blocking drills in TC, and I like that he said that they weren't going to throw a rookie QB to the wolves, but aside from that I can't think of anything I like about his work, and certainly not about the team's play. They looked great the first game vs the Steelers, but it's been pretty much all downhill since then.
If Woody doesn't fire Glenn, he should at least make Glenn hire an entirely offensive CS and maybe the same with the defensive staff. I think it was unrealistic to expect Chris Harris to totally change the D and how they played in 2-3 practices. He can't change the scheme in that time. All he can do is tweak a few things, mayb disguise his blitzes better, but that's about it.
Mougey has done a good job and should stay, but Glenn and the rest should be gone imo.
Agreed with you here Bobber. It's not even about the talent it's about resetting the dynamic and culture and while players tend to love him at the start, his personality can wear thin as we saw with Garrett Wilson and him towards the end of the season.
With or without Rodgers, Jets weren't winning a thing this year just like last year, and so in my opinion it was right to reset everything. Rodgers wasn't willing to commit straight away and when you're trying to install something from the ground up, the first thing you need is commitment.
Glenn saying goodbye to Rodgers is probably one of the only things I've liked about this season.
The problem with Rodgers isn’t what he does on the field but what he does off of it. Midway this season he started to throw receivers under the bus after loses.
The Jets under JD and Saleh practically let him be GM and HC.
He was too big a personality for a new coach, plus his age didn’t help. If he was 31-33, Glenn probably would have welcomed him.
What makes saying goodbye to him the wrong move right now was bringing in Fields.
No matter what BS Glenn said when he was hired, this team was due a rebuild.
I don’t think Rodgers would want to be part of that.
What also helps his cause is the injuries to Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrows.
I just don’t think keeping Rodgers would have been the right move.
I guess our opinions are of different mindsets. but that what makes this format a great read.
Agree on the great interaction even when we disagree.
Further defending my position on Rodgers - If you study the players that play with him, he is beloved for the most part. Media hates him because he is dismissive of them. I just think AG could have learned so much from him about running an O. The dude is smart as hell.
Rodgers is smart, but he's arrogant. I think Glenn and Rodgers would have been like oil and water. There would have been no mixing, no learning, just head-butting.
Right on the nose Craig. Keeping Rodgers would have been akin to making a decision to use a sand foundation to build a house instead of concrete. He's an insufferable prique and would have been more trouble than he was worth having around.
It might end up being the only smart thing AG has done in getting rid of that albatross. Keeping him would have been a culture destroyer, period. And yes, pushing in all the chips on a bad hand like signing and anointing Fields was his worst decision. I don't think they will fire him after the season, but he could be on borrowed time already.
Love the Bobber but I strongly disagree. Jets paid for him this year already. AG would have learned so much from Aaron about offense this year as would all those young guys. The Steelers are in the playoffs because of Aaron Rodgers. He has played magnificently for them for a good portion of the year and has stayed healthy. He clearly got the last laugh on the Jets. Time to admit it.
Dougie,Dougie,Dougie…..It’s a NO for me buddy. Rodgers and Glynn would have butted heads all season. Two stubborn dudes with strong egos. No pack can have two Alpha’s. As for AR helping the young receivers, that would be tough assuming we would have also kept his GB playmates!
May be right, but could the result have been any worse? They are a pure mess right now and AG seems clueless on offense. My point is he would have learned a tremendous amount from Rodgers even if they did clash.
Yes, the Jets may have won a few more games, but there would have been unbearable drama in the tabloids every week, and it wouldn't have been worth it. It would have been another 3-ring circus, and the Jets would have less cap space, and probably wouldn't have all the draft capital they do now if they had kept Rodgers, because they probably wouldn't have traded Q or Sauce.
He's actually been a below average QB this year but that's kinda irrelevant. Last year the Jets won 5 games and averaged fewer than 20 ppg. That was with 11 games of Adams and a full season of Wilson. This year they had no Adams and 6 games of Wilson. How much better do you think he would have played?
There was no way that Rodgers was going to work out on this team this year. There would have been a constant battle between Glenn and Rodgers, and the team would have been divided. Rodgers sure didn't stop the dumb penalties and mistakes on offense while he was here. If Rodgers had stayed, then Adams would have had to stay, and the Jets would have had to push cap hits into 2026 and 2027, and more than likely, GW would have been asking for a trade. This is a terrible take/idea, Douglas and you need to let it go.
Someone here said that Cook shouldn't play again. I disagree. They need to tell him to forget about the TO, just go out there, relax, have fun, and wing it. He's a smart kid. He'll learn. If they stop his playing now, he could be ruined forever. They need to give him a chance to redeem himself. Playing Fields or Taylor is meaningless and pointless.
They're not going to play Fields beacause of how awful he was, his attitude refusing to consider the wildcat, and they don't want to get stuck having to pay all of his salary next year. By not playing him again and he avoids injuiry, the Jets can prorate his guaranteed money - $22 million - over the next 2 years rather than having to pay it all in 2026.
Absolutely Craig. He's still a UDFA that no team wanted to use draft assets on. Will he ever be a starting quality NFL QB, probably not, but it's in the realm of possibility that he could end up being a qualified backup. Putting Taylor out there for the last two games makes no sense. I'd rather have a better possibility for one of the prime QB's who may declare for the draft than win a game that means relatively little in the long run. This season is dead and buried and that's that.
Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before things get better. The Jets have teetered on rock bottom for years, now they are there. But here is what is going to turn the ship. They seem to have a smart GM, they have more draft capital that ever, they have good gap space this year and project to have good cap space next year. The O line is fine with minimal help needed. The team on the field is full of rookies and udfa do you really expect them to be competing. I would have liked to see Cook play better and maybe he will during the next 2 games. The sacks were due to him holding the ball too long. They will lose the next 2 games then the rebuild really starts.
Scott, I agree with your opening sentence, but the problem is that Woody is like an alcoholi refusing to admit that he has a problem. He is the one that drives everything with the Jets, and unless or until he finally pulls his head out of ass, realizes that HE is the problem, nothing will get better. IMO Glenn is not competent to be a HC, and neither are most (all?) of the coaches on his staff.
Even with all that cap space and all those draftpicks, with Glenn and this CS it's probably all going to go to waste.
Look at what has happened with the team this year. They started great in the first game, then sucked, played decently for a few weeks (or were fortunate to get to play some equally bad teams), then fell apart again. Fields regressed, Cook is regressing, the OL as a whole has regressed. The only reasons that the WR core didn't regress is because GW went on IR, and the rest sucked until Mitchell and Metchie were added, and even Metchie has regressed. Ruckert is maybe the only player on the team who has improved.
Sherwood has been a shell of what he was last year. The same goes for WMD, JJ, Quincy, MC II, Q, Sauce, and Adams. At least part of JJ's regression can be explained by the achilles tear and surgery. Yes, it was Wilks scheme, but why didn't Glenn do something sooner? He seems more concerned with not hurting anyone's feelings, be it player or coach, than he is with winning.
I'm about at the point that I wish Mougey would just trade all of our draft capital for 2030 draft picks. Maybe by then Woody will have hit rock bottom and the Jets will somehow get a good HC.
IMO the Jets will never have a good HC as long as Woody is making the hire, and because of that the Jets will never be good, win consistently or make the playoffs.
David, the newsletter this morning is perfect. Nothing more needed to be added. I hope that your visit with Santa and your two children was a lot of fun and went great! I forget do you celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25 as well?
I actually starting writing today that I faith in Glenn is diminishing, but I tend to like to give HC's at least until the end of year 2 to see what kind of progress there is. He's learning on the job as you'd expect him to be but I also understand how tiring it is to constantly have head coaches learning on the job. You look at what Liam Coen is doing and what Ben Johnson is doing, great jobs. But...they had a QB to work with...they were also offensive minded in an offensive league.
Unfortunately, I couldn't agree with you more David, especially about Cook, Engstram and the O-line. In just about every other game I watch, teams scheme up receivers so they run free and it becomes an easy pitch and catch. . .but not the Jets of course. Where are the crossers? The double moves? The use of motion? Here's one: how about executing a rub route one or twice a season, especially in the red zone?!? Or misdirection. Tanner does NONE of that and we NEVER see Jet receivers getting Yac. Everything is a curl route ( which New Orleans was all over) or to the sidelines.
And I agree too about the O-line. They have regressed considerably of late. Jets can't run the ball effectively, and their pass blocking-especially against pressure-is brutal. Brady looked terrible yesterday, Mitchie has disappeared.
And Simpson should be in the anti Ring of Honor for ALWAYS getting stupid penalties at the most inopportune times: 3rd and short, Jets a a first down on a sneak, but that's negated because that dope gets a 15 yarder for a chop block. I have literally never seen that on a QB sneak. So in addition to 'the same old Jets', we should create a new category called 'only the Jets'. See Butt fumble, 15 games w/o an interception chop block on a QB sneak. . .' They are PATHETIC.
I think the discussion about Engstrand not running the right plays is overblown. Teams who are able to scheme up receivers open aren't getting those receivers open by simply calling a specific play or pattern. I also don't think it's necessarily true that he isn't calling certain patterns. Was it really the case that the Jets simply didn't run any crossers, rubs, or double moves (I'm less worried about them not calling double moves....those require 5 or 7 step drops that would've been tough to pull off unless they got the ground game going and slowed the pass rush)? I'm skeptical. For one, calling certain route concepts requires a certain down and distance and I don't think the Jets successfully got themselves into position to open up the playbook. They have to be able to run and execute the simple stuff in order to open up larger parts of the playbook. They didn't do that.
I get that it's appealing to think that had the Jets just called better plays, they'd have played better. The reality is that their offense, at the moment, is rarely executing even the simplest plays. Some of this has to do with the perimeter players playing poorly, which has to do with those players having not been on the team very long. They're all still learning and digesting the playbook, which is probably resulting in Engstrand working with even less of the playbook than normal. It means there are certain concepts and plays that can only be run out of certain formations, personnels, or sets. It's, honestly, the plight of a bad team that has had a lot of turnover. It's a chicken/egg scenario. Were they always this bad? Unlikely. The team, however, is drastically different than it was in training camp and the playbook has had to be pared down considerably because of the amount of turnover on the offense. You try to lean on strengths, but the fact that defenses know your team's strengths means that adjustments are made in order to react to defenses. It simply isn't working. I think most coordinators, in this position, would fail to produce a productive offense in this situation. They're working with depleted talent, a discombobulated group of skill players, and a fair deal of variance and change. Put Sean McVay in Tanner Engstrand's shoes and he probably struggles similarly. It's just a situation where the offense is probably going to be bad no matter what.
Sorry, Daniel, but while there's probably some truth to what you say about the Jets players not being able to execute the simple parts of the Jets; offense, I don't believe or agree that McVay or a more experienced OC would still be having the same problems. I think that Engstrand is part of the problem, perhaps a big part.
It's totally possible that Engstrand isn't a good coordinator right now. Technically, part of what I'm saying is that Engstrand needs to improve more parts of his ability as a coordinator that have nothing to do with play calling or getting certain players the ball. The entire offense is executing poorly and is regularly on different pages depending on the position group. Everybody has to be on the same page and doing the same thing at the same time for a play to work. That takes a lot of coordination and communication. It's also easier to do in college when there is more room for individual performances to mask mistakes.
If anything, THAT problem with rooting out mistakes and improving communication is a far bigger issue than what plays he is calling. We get too focused on the end result (what play is called) rather than giving enough time to considering the intricacies of how a play is executed and how many things can go wrong and cause a play to fail.
Well said on lack of crossing routes, which is the way to create separation. Jets only run very basic vertical routes and horizontal routes at line of scrimmage. It is like watching a high school team. Nothing deep or crosses over the middle. Aaron’s comment on Cook after the game was about can’t allow turnovers. Really? That’s what you got out of that performance? His pick was well after the game of over. I wish he had more turnovers based on some aggression in getting rid of the ball. And some pocket movement vs looking to run after any pressure. Cook was coached to avoid mistakes, which is the worst way to coach a QB. Huge issue with AG at this point. He owns this mess now.
Saints CB’s were fearless, it’s like they knew what was coming. Cook and the Offense took two steps back., but Brady throws a nice screen pass.
Douglas, it could be Glenn and it could be Engstrand coaching not to make mistakes. I think that's why Fields regressed and just stood there so often. IMO that has to be on Engstrand or London constantly reinforcing that, rather than saying, "Go out there and wing it, and don't worry." Of course with the Jets' D being so bad, a TO is devastation because usually it leads to a TD, but still a QB cannot play afraid. Excellent point!
Another unwatchable debacle. Absolutely nothing good came out of this disgraceful performance other than maintaining our draft position. I have to agree with David on AG and Engstrand not looking like a part of the future. I really wanted to believe but I need a reason to.
Excellent, Tom! Please post more often.
A lot of Jets fans have said that they think Simpson should be re-signed/extended, but I disagree. His play has been too inconsistent, and usually bad this season. Replace him in FA, and sign better depth.
I agree on Engstrand. I was encouraged earlier in the year. I don't often get to see the games because my local CBS affiliate never carries the Jets. So I can't see a lot of the specifics that the rest of you do, but in reading all of your reports, it has become clear to me that Engstrand isn't good enough. Glenn and his whole CS need to be fired into sun, including the lone holdover on the CS Jefferson. Woody probably won't do anything, but I hope that if both the Bills and the Patriots backups blow the Jets out the next two weeks, that will do it and Woody, will see that a change has to be made. Mougey has done a good job. He should get to hire the next HC.
Quite pathetic performance. Let's hope Dante Moore comes out, which would give us another option. I really don't want to give up any draft capital. We have so many needs.
David, you don’t need to apologize for spending time with your family.
One of the greatest family men of all time, Don Vito Corleone, lectured his son Sonny” A man isn’t a man if he doesn’t spend time with his family”
The Brigade was willing and able to carry your water today after such a remarkable Jet performance yesterday
Well today I saw Santa at the zoo, took part in a snow party and attended a magic show. At two of those things I had to dance, which is not something that comes overly natural to this man, but the kids loved it and I don't mind looking like a fool if it makes them happy.
What's a snow party?
A "snow party" in England usually means an alpine-themed event (like an après-ski party) with fake snow, DJs, winter drinks (mulled wine), and activities, often for Christmas or corporate parties, or it can refer to kids' birthday parties at indoor ski slopes with sledging/donutting. It's a way to get a snowy winter vibe without actual deep snow, which is relatively rare in the UK.
What are the temperatures there. Warm enough to do outside things
Yeah very mild here again, around 10 degrees today which i think is 50f - Hoping it'll be colder once we head to Copenhagen at the end of the month.
Chance for less than an inch of tomorrow after that no chance of persipitation
until weekend
Temperatures in 40s Xmas Eve and Day so comparable to your weather
The QB was awful. He can’t go back out there again. Agree on Tanner wrt scheme, but Cook had zero pocket presence and refused to throw downfield. And could not/would not get rid of the football. The lack of downfield passing may go back to AG lack of aggression on O, no idea. But AG is not looking good at this point. Jets cannot have another defensive HC who is totally incompetent in running the O. Breece actually played well btw. And the D hung in there for quite awhile.
Yeah that's not the Brady Cook that i enjoyed watching at Missouri or even the Brady Cook that I enjoyed watching when he first came in as relief for Tyrod. Seems to me that he was completely in his own head about turnovers and as a result he was gun shy to push the ball, he moved to his check down far too quickly and the pocket presence was completely missing. I'm not sure if we'll see him again this season, but if we do I'd rather see him be himself rather than this conservative shell.
perfectly put, David.
It sounds like you're right about Cook being in his own head and focusing too much on not making a TO.
He DEFINITELY was checking down more than you usually see. We've discussed this before, but I think there is probably something to be said for receivers being in the right place at the right time. That includes running routes with the right pace, at the right depth, from the right alignment, etc. I think that when a young quarterback looks downfield and doesn't see guys where he expects to see them, he'll start second-guessing his reads. Engstrand, likely, has a sound gameplan. The problem has been getting that gameplan executed correctly, which goes more to Engstrand's ability to manage his position coaches and getting all of the players in the right place doing the right thing at the right time. Having so many players who are still in their first or second month on the team probably exacerbates the problem.
I think you're probably on to something with regards to Engstrand not being able to manage his position coaches, but that's a big part of the job at which he is failing.
I don't get the impression that Aaron Glenn is behind the scenes telling Tanner Engstrand to not push the ball down field or to call certain kinds of plays. Glenn has seemed like a guy who trusts the dudes he hired. What I saw during the game was a young, inexperienced quarterback who didn't trust what he saw from the defense. If I had to guess, I'd say that the game plan was to attempt to lean on the running game and the short passing game to pick up some YAC. Starting an undrafted rookie free agent who has so little time working with the starters suggests a game plan that limits the amount of times they ask him to drop back and make too many reads. I think that kind of matches what I saw. Unforunately, the offensive line didn't look great and the execution out of the skill players looked sloppy. It makes sense considering nearly the entire receiving corp and the starting quarterback weren't on the team in camp. The combination of inexperience and a bunch of guys who haven't played together results in sloppy (and ineffective) play.
I agree with much of this, Daniel, especially that Glenn is telling Engstrand not to throw the ball downfield, but how do you explain how Cook and the receivers looked better in his other games? With more time working together in practice, things should be getting better, not worse.
and that AG's comment after the game was all about Cook's turnovers, which were meaningless relative to his overall poor performance. my major concern is AG is falling into the trap other new Jet defensive minded HC's fall into - conservative mistake free offense and strong D will somehow win games.
I think teams are going to more often than not preach to young quarterbacks to not take unnecessary risks. That is especially true for younger unestablished quarterbacks because they have less experience and underlying know-how to fall back on. They're still trying to establish a consistent level of play and good habits. I don't mind coaches instilling that mentality of limiting turnover-worthy plays. The key is balancing it with taking good risks. That's hard to do, though.
Precisely, Daniel. Finding balance is hard, and imo NFL HCs and OCs make the mistake of talking too much about mistake avoidance. We all know that players don't play their best, and in fact, are MORE likely to make a mistake when they're trying not to make a mistake. IMO you have to let the young players play and make mistakes, those are learning opportunities. One can point out what caused that interception or fumble. Was it something fundamental or technique wise? Was it a bad decision? Did he misread the D? QBs have to be like CBs when they get burned. Forget about it and move on to the next play. Constantly drilling into a QB's head not to turn the ball over can ruin them. I think that's part of Darnold and Zach failed so badly with the Jets. I don't think any QB likes committing interceptions. Favre never learned. He was still making dumb rookie mistakes the last year of his career. Jameis Winston, seemingly hasn't learned, either, but because that wasn't drilled into their head (or they ignored it), they were able to keep playing at a high level. I think an NFL focusing on that with a young QB is dumb mistake that will ruin the young QB. The longer I watch the NFL, the dumber I think their coaches are.
And that's part of the problem with hiring former DCs as the HC. The Jets are the only team that consistently hires former DCs as HC.
I'm not particularly surprised by players in this environment hitting a wall. Most of these skill players are still learning the offense, Cook and the rest of these skill guys have had very little tape (therefore, defenses in the previous two games didn't have as much to study), and they're beginning to attmempt to make adjustments. Adjustments can result in guys getting out of rythym because they're changing things about how they play.
Essentially, it's not surprising to me that as teams get more tape on Cook and this newer-look offense, they'll become more successful stopping this offense. They need to keep practicing and not get too flustered by the poor results. It's like a young hitter in baseball establishing himself in the league but not getting results. The results doesn't necessarily mean the overall approach is bad. If he changes the approach before results come, it can result in regression because he's switched from a healthier approach to attempt to juice numbers. It's all a balancing act.
If there is one thing we learn as adults is that we should never let emotions rule what we say, think or write. That we should calm down for a while, relax, and orderly collect our thoughts.
Last week, Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk fame insinuated that Glenn could be one and done.
Well it is approximately, 1 1/2 minutes since the end of that debacle that was called an NFL game, I have calmed down, collected my thoughts and I tend to agree with Florio.
The 3-11 Jets entered the game against 4-10 Saints who were starting a rookie quarterback Tyler Shough.
By the time the final whistle blew, the Saints appeared to be a 10-5 team. The rookie quarterback had his first 300 yard game passing. We can’t blame Wilks this time for that performance.
The Saints marched into every game this year averaging 2 sacks a game, they happily marched out to Bourbon Street yesterday after amassing 8 sacks.
Here we are into the Jets 15th game and Glenn’s calling timeouts as the Saints are marching in for first half ending score. He gave the Saints another chance for a score after the Jets went 3 and out as he was calling timeouts letting the first half be extended for the Saints. He still hasn’t learned a thing about the two minute drill
The Jet’s offensive line coach played tight end in college and the pros, it really shows. The offensive line played today as if this was their first time together.
The quarterback coach played running back in the pros and based on what we have seen from Fields and now Cook it shows he was a running back.
These assistants along with Wilks were all Glenn’s decisions
Cook looked horrible yesterday but did Engstrand really help him.
Do the Jets ever throw on first down to start a drive.
Does he ever call pass patterns that exceed 5 yards.
Cook was constantly called upon to pass in 3rd and 7 and 3rd and eight situations. As the game continued, Cook looked cooked. He started to hold onto the ball too long, he was hesitating,Fields must have been proud.
Didn’t it appear that every Jet receiver was covered on every play while the Saint receivers were running around undaunted.
At the end of the first half, Brady Cook's average air yards per attempt in the first half, per TruMedia:
0.7 yards.
Yes, you're reading that right.
Right now, Glenn and Pete Carroll appear to be the worse of all the new HCs.
Did some of the new HCs luck out by inheriting quality quarterbacks, yes indeed but how does the rest of their teams look and play.
Kellen Moore drafted Slough, would you rather have him as HC over Glenn.
Remember Glenn couldn’t sign Fields fast enough the first day of free agency and then anointed him the starter almost immediately. So his quarterback situation is on him and is not all JD and Saleh’s fault.
Does any Jet fan who has been watching this debacle of a season really trust Glenn.
Does any Jet fan really think he can be successful.
Does any Jet fan really want him in the draft room with all those picks.
It would appear that Mougey is a keeper but can the same be said about Glenn.
If you thought today was a nightmare just wait for the last two games on the schedule. The Jets will be facing both the Pats and the Bills who are both fighting for the division title and/ or playoffs
Will Glenn be fired, very doubtful.
Should Glenn be fired, probably.
Should Glenn have been hired, it appears definitely not.
Bobber, I never wanted Glenn. I didn't like him when he played for the Jets, and he was always going to have to win me over. He hasn't. He's done some things right focusing on tackling and blocking drills in TC, and I like that he said that they weren't going to throw a rookie QB to the wolves, but aside from that I can't think of anything I like about his work, and certainly not about the team's play. They looked great the first game vs the Steelers, but it's been pretty much all downhill since then.
If Woody doesn't fire Glenn, he should at least make Glenn hire an entirely offensive CS and maybe the same with the defensive staff. I think it was unrealistic to expect Chris Harris to totally change the D and how they played in 2-3 practices. He can't change the scheme in that time. All he can do is tweak a few things, mayb disguise his blitzes better, but that's about it.
Mougey has done a good job and should stay, but Glenn and the rest should be gone imo.
You left out AG’s decision to get rid of Aaron who the Jets are paying for this year. How is that looking now?
I hate to say it but letting him walk away was probably one of the smartest things Glenn did. The cap issues while lofty are short term.
Amazingly one of Glenn’s best decisions, saying bye bye to Aaron, Glenn followed up with his absolute worst, signing Fields
Agreed with you here Bobber. It's not even about the talent it's about resetting the dynamic and culture and while players tend to love him at the start, his personality can wear thin as we saw with Garrett Wilson and him towards the end of the season.
With or without Rodgers, Jets weren't winning a thing this year just like last year, and so in my opinion it was right to reset everything. Rodgers wasn't willing to commit straight away and when you're trying to install something from the ground up, the first thing you need is commitment.
Glenn saying goodbye to Rodgers is probably one of the only things I've liked about this season.
The problem with Rodgers isn’t what he does on the field but what he does off of it. Midway this season he started to throw receivers under the bus after loses.
The Jets under JD and Saleh practically let him be GM and HC.
He was too big a personality for a new coach, plus his age didn’t help. If he was 31-33, Glenn probably would have welcomed him.
What makes saying goodbye to him the wrong move right now was bringing in Fields.
No matter what BS Glenn said when he was hired, this team was due a rebuild.
I don’t think Rodgers would want to be part of that.
What also helps his cause is the injuries to Lamar Jackson and Joe Burrows.
I just don’t think keeping Rodgers would have been the right move.
I guess our opinions are of different mindsets. but that what makes this format a great read.
Agree on the great interaction even when we disagree.
Further defending my position on Rodgers - If you study the players that play with him, he is beloved for the most part. Media hates him because he is dismissive of them. I just think AG could have learned so much from him about running an O. The dude is smart as hell.
Rodgers is smart, but he's arrogant. I think Glenn and Rodgers would have been like oil and water. There would have been no mixing, no learning, just head-butting.
Right on the nose Craig. Keeping Rodgers would have been akin to making a decision to use a sand foundation to build a house instead of concrete. He's an insufferable prique and would have been more trouble than he was worth having around.
It might end up being the only smart thing AG has done in getting rid of that albatross. Keeping him would have been a culture destroyer, period. And yes, pushing in all the chips on a bad hand like signing and anointing Fields was his worst decision. I don't think they will fire him after the season, but he could be on borrowed time already.
Love the Bobber but I strongly disagree. Jets paid for him this year already. AG would have learned so much from Aaron about offense this year as would all those young guys. The Steelers are in the playoffs because of Aaron Rodgers. He has played magnificently for them for a good portion of the year and has stayed healthy. He clearly got the last laugh on the Jets. Time to admit it.
Dougie,Dougie,Dougie…..It’s a NO for me buddy. Rodgers and Glynn would have butted heads all season. Two stubborn dudes with strong egos. No pack can have two Alpha’s. As for AR helping the young receivers, that would be tough assuming we would have also kept his GB playmates!
Spot on, Ron!
You are preaching to the choir Ron. He would have been a big detriment in the long run.
May be right, but could the result have been any worse? They are a pure mess right now and AG seems clueless on offense. My point is he would have learned a tremendous amount from Rodgers even if they did clash.
Yes, the Jets may have won a few more games, but there would have been unbearable drama in the tabloids every week, and it wouldn't have been worth it. It would have been another 3-ring circus, and the Jets would have less cap space, and probably wouldn't have all the draft capital they do now if they had kept Rodgers, because they probably wouldn't have traded Q or Sauce.
He's actually been a below average QB this year but that's kinda irrelevant. Last year the Jets won 5 games and averaged fewer than 20 ppg. That was with 11 games of Adams and a full season of Wilson. This year they had no Adams and 6 games of Wilson. How much better do you think he would have played?
There was no way that Rodgers was going to work out on this team this year. There would have been a constant battle between Glenn and Rodgers, and the team would have been divided. Rodgers sure didn't stop the dumb penalties and mistakes on offense while he was here. If Rodgers had stayed, then Adams would have had to stay, and the Jets would have had to push cap hits into 2026 and 2027, and more than likely, GW would have been asking for a trade. This is a terrible take/idea, Douglas and you need to let it go.
Wow Bobber, now I am depressed
You, David and every other person who comments here.
Someone here said that Cook shouldn't play again. I disagree. They need to tell him to forget about the TO, just go out there, relax, have fun, and wing it. He's a smart kid. He'll learn. If they stop his playing now, he could be ruined forever. They need to give him a chance to redeem himself. Playing Fields or Taylor is meaningless and pointless.
They're not going to play Fields beacause of how awful he was, his attitude refusing to consider the wildcat, and they don't want to get stuck having to pay all of his salary next year. By not playing him again and he avoids injuiry, the Jets can prorate his guaranteed money - $22 million - over the next 2 years rather than having to pay it all in 2026.
Absolutely Craig. He's still a UDFA that no team wanted to use draft assets on. Will he ever be a starting quality NFL QB, probably not, but it's in the realm of possibility that he could end up being a qualified backup. Putting Taylor out there for the last two games makes no sense. I'd rather have a better possibility for one of the prime QB's who may declare for the draft than win a game that means relatively little in the long run. This season is dead and buried and that's that.
Sometimes you have to hit rock bottom before things get better. The Jets have teetered on rock bottom for years, now they are there. But here is what is going to turn the ship. They seem to have a smart GM, they have more draft capital that ever, they have good gap space this year and project to have good cap space next year. The O line is fine with minimal help needed. The team on the field is full of rookies and udfa do you really expect them to be competing. I would have liked to see Cook play better and maybe he will during the next 2 games. The sacks were due to him holding the ball too long. They will lose the next 2 games then the rebuild really starts.
Scott, I agree with your opening sentence, but the problem is that Woody is like an alcoholi refusing to admit that he has a problem. He is the one that drives everything with the Jets, and unless or until he finally pulls his head out of ass, realizes that HE is the problem, nothing will get better. IMO Glenn is not competent to be a HC, and neither are most (all?) of the coaches on his staff.
Even with all that cap space and all those draftpicks, with Glenn and this CS it's probably all going to go to waste.
Look at what has happened with the team this year. They started great in the first game, then sucked, played decently for a few weeks (or were fortunate to get to play some equally bad teams), then fell apart again. Fields regressed, Cook is regressing, the OL as a whole has regressed. The only reasons that the WR core didn't regress is because GW went on IR, and the rest sucked until Mitchell and Metchie were added, and even Metchie has regressed. Ruckert is maybe the only player on the team who has improved.
Sherwood has been a shell of what he was last year. The same goes for WMD, JJ, Quincy, MC II, Q, Sauce, and Adams. At least part of JJ's regression can be explained by the achilles tear and surgery. Yes, it was Wilks scheme, but why didn't Glenn do something sooner? He seems more concerned with not hurting anyone's feelings, be it player or coach, than he is with winning.
I'm about at the point that I wish Mougey would just trade all of our draft capital for 2030 draft picks. Maybe by then Woody will have hit rock bottom and the Jets will somehow get a good HC.
IMO the Jets will never have a good HC as long as Woody is making the hire, and because of that the Jets will never be good, win consistently or make the playoffs.
David, the newsletter this morning is perfect. Nothing more needed to be added. I hope that your visit with Santa and your two children was a lot of fun and went great! I forget do you celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25 as well?
The “Tank Commander” Cook name I saw yesterday thought that was our only bright spot. David you hit on all of it.
Personally I don’t want any more assistant coaches hired to be the head coach. Glenn just has to go.
This “brand” of Detroit football blows - some it the worse in the history of the franchise!
I actually starting writing today that I faith in Glenn is diminishing, but I tend to like to give HC's at least until the end of year 2 to see what kind of progress there is. He's learning on the job as you'd expect him to be but I also understand how tiring it is to constantly have head coaches learning on the job. You look at what Liam Coen is doing and what Ben Johnson is doing, great jobs. But...they had a QB to work with...they were also offensive minded in an offensive league.
Well said - its a offensive league and other first time coaches doing much better