- not playing starters in preseason proved to be a disaster as some of us predicted - the team was rusty and timid on D. Aggressiveness cones with confidence, and confidence cones from playing not talking
- Linebackers failed Jets terribly. Did Quincy Williams even play last night? Mosley looks slow and old. Huge issue here going forward. Blood is the water - remember that the 49er O line is not historically strong except for Williams and he just got off the bus
- Jets got played by 49ers. They knew McCaffrey wasn’t playing all along - huge benefit to have Jets thinking they have false advantage minutes before game.
I would like to see a study on how teams perform in week one having not played in the pre-season in comparison to those teams who do play in the pre-season.
Not at all. I don't understand why people were talking about it. He has no kpre leverage this morning than he did yesterday morning. Now if the DEs cant get preasure on Levis next week, thats a different matter all together.
Completely agree. He is a talker and media darling. And the brigade should show up. A bit of irony being in Tennessee next week - they should have grabbed Vrabel as soon as he was available. Just my opinion.
100% in agreement with the Vrabel remark, then again, it appears Saleh was saved from the guillotine because Rodgers appeared to like him and Woody being a terrible owner in the personnel department didn’t want to upset the apple cart
I'm still not sold on Saleh as a head coach, but I also think that the season is so young it's hard to make any pronouncements. Titans, Patriots, Broncos, Vikings all up next, there's a very good chance the Jets are sitting here at 4-1 after those and then it looks a lot different.
I guess I’m gonna be Mr.Disagreeable today because bookmarking this defense to be a top 5 unit for me is unrealistic. We can’t stop the run. This game was no fluke. There have been many one score losses where we couldn’t stop the run when it mattered and ended up loosing games without getting that late opportunity on offense to come back. That wide 9 scheme is great for rushing the QB but it’s not a great run stopping scheme. Being spread so thin creates easy blocking angles and teams run through our A gaps like they have an “EASY PASS”!
I concur! With a lead, the wide 9 is a good defensive plan, but if our defense can’t stop the run, we are in trouble. Granted that SF is one of the best teams in the league, the team’s defensive failure may reflect that we do not belong on the level of SF. If we see this issue the next few weeks, the inability to run stop may upend the season. Maybe an Al Woods unmovable object in the middle would help! We shall see.
I second that emotion Ron. It was pitiful last night for the defense. And you are absolutely correct about the wide 9, it's a huge liability against the run. Add to that the 4-2-5 setup where the LB's are only 25 lbs. or so heavier than the corners and safeties. They get run over up the middle and on wide plays their lateral speed is great, but they don't have the mass to stop a well-designed and well-executed run play. And what gets me is that this has been happening like clockwork for the last 3 years. If you go back and look at game films, opponents' drives are extended again and again because the failure to stop the run.
The missed tackles are a hallmark of lack of tackling in preseason. It’s not just a NY Jets issue. Training camp doesn’t allow tackling! The way the NFL is set up today, you really don’t know what team you have until at least week 3/4. That’s what used to be a normal preseason. Everyone hates preseason injuries and whatnot, injuries are a part of the game. You need actual press games to get ready with live action and you cannot really simulate all the elements.
Saleh clearly prefers pass rushing DT over run stuffers. We had foley year 1, a good player against run but he was not good in this defense. They booted him. Year 2 they got a more athletic DT- Rankins. He sucked year 1 but then they saw something in latter games and brought him back. He was very good in his 2nd year. Then he got a big contract. We swapped him for QJefferson another pass rush first DT but for us he was pretty decent against run. However the big shift in thought was bringing in Al Woods a perennial run stuffer. Unfortunately he got hurt.
So this year we bring in Kinlaw who is a better pass rusher than Run stuffer. However he CAN be a good player against run yet no one has seen it. Saleh loves him, drafted him, and believes in his potential. 🤷🏾♂️. The success of Our defense depends on him a great deal. Q is always going to make his mark but if they can just double him and run up the other side, we are in for a long year on D.
Moreover, this issue is philosophical. Saleh believes in aggressive upfield disruption, and will concede the cutbacks and draw plays. Her feels that while his Dnwill give up yardage on ground, eventually in a series one of his gap penetrating DL will force a loss. At that point, then pass rush engages and he wins. He doesn’t think that what happened last night is sustainable for most teams. Consistent 10-12-14 play drives with majority runs without a negative stop or penalty to put them behind the sticks.
Hard to argue with him as he has been a top 5 DEf Coordinator for a decade. It’s a combination of Pete Carrol’s D and The old Philly Wide 9, coupled with some M2M and Quarters coverages on back end.
I’ve always had an issue with the run concession. In fact I bagged the table for T’Vondre Sweat in draft when he fell to 3rd. Everyone wanted the WR and I get it, but IDL was just as important. I think we could have traded back into 3rd and took sweat. However that would have cost us Stiggers or Allen’s.
Hang in there gents, it game 1, basically pre season.
Excellent insight and perspective. However, if IDL play and tackling does not improve, then Shanahan has drawn up the blueprint of how to beat the NY Jets!
This is very true with the Saleh/Ulbrich defense. They run a gap-penetration style defense. Jets supporters who loved the Rex Ryan teams will notice that the teams, despite both being great defenses, were great in different ways. Those Rex Ryan-led units featured enormous defensive linemen with enormous linebackers in an effort to always control the point of attack, creating a wall of defenders. Those units weren't designed for penetration. The nose is likely attempting to 2-gap (control multiple gaps at once) and the ends are holding their ground while controlling their gap. They grab as many blockers as possible so that the linebackers can come fill their gap assignment, resulting in no running lanes.
This Saleh/Ulbrich defense is a whole different animal. It's predicated on penetration, with the defensive linemen attempting to defeat their blocks and get upfield. The reason that stuff like this can work is that it throws the blocking scheme into disarray. The defensive line tries to knife through the blocking scheme (while attempting to maintain gap-integrity) in order to create the kind of disruption that blows up how a play should be blocked. Sound tackling on the backend is a must, which is probably why Jets supporters are steaming. Don't get me wrong; the coaching staff is steaming, as well. They, however, understand that, when everybody executes their assignment, it works. Trust me on this; the Xs and Os are sound. It's not as if they're running some kind of incoherent defense. There are, clearly, some guys who weren't executing their assignments and that will be a point of emphasis during the practices this week. If you trust that there is at least starter-level talent on the backend, the scheme should work. Give it time.
This was a really painful game to watch. They ran thru the defense like it was swiss cheese. I am curious what Ulbrich will say on Thursday. This is a definite must win game next Sunday with a statement needed to be made, especially by the defense. I am having a hard time remembering when I really enjoyed watching a Jets game. i must be a masochist :)
After sleeping on it after a totally disastrous defensive display, if this team comes out the next few weeks and displays the same slow start that seems to be Saleh’s M O.
Then I really think that Woody should start having talks with Mike Vrabel.
This teams window of success is barely ajar due to Rodgers age. This year and maybe next year will be it.
The Jets as an organization need a HC who can get this team ready from the opening minute. Saleh has yet to show he can do it.
He claims he saw a lot of good last night, I must have been watching a different game.
I saw some good, the performance of Lazard outside the drop is a marked improvement on last season. I thought the protection by and large was good, Rodgers got hit and was fine...that's a positive. Rodgers wasn't perfect but considering that was his real first competitive game in around 600 days, I think it's understandable.
I think the defence needed this humbling and they'll be better for it in the long run
Well, when you watch the ALL 22 you will no doubt note that two of the ball Lazard did catch were double catches. And that drop was another drive killer. Lazard being better was not exactly a big deal for me because last years performance set a really low bar.
As long as he catches it he can double or triple catch it. That drop was a poor one which impacted us, but overall i thoight as a whole he had a good game.
David, you might be ok with the double catch’s but if the Jets are paying attention I guarantee you they are concerned. It’s important. If you don’t catch it clean it affords the defender an opportunity to knock it away. Along the sidelines it can lead to a referee calling an incompletion if it’s initially touched in but a foot may come down out by the time it’s finally secured. Brian Baldinger brought it up this morning on his segment on WFAN’s mid morning show.
I wonder if Lazard has always been a guy who has had trouble being a hands catcher. He is always really tough, physically, and makes the athletic part of the play. The hand-eye part sometimes falls below expectations. Maybe that is, simply, what you trade off for those physical traits in a 3rd or 4th receiver. They should figure out ways to generate easy looks for him. He's not a contested catch machine.
Danny Boy, yes it’s been an issue and at this point I’m not sure there’s a fix. Pretty sure it’s bwhy his targets to completion numbers aren’t very good.
I don't think hand-eye coordination is something that is imminently fixable. It's a scenario where they'd need to scheme him into productive situations. Harness that athleticism!
Exactly 👍 And looking at the all 22 that’s exactly what they did. On each pass thrown his way he was literally schemed open. He’s 6’5 225 so his body alone can create some separation. But he’s not quick or nimble so he can be the beneficiary of some rub routes or crossers.
Part of my displeasure is that the schedule was announced on May 15th, approximately 4 months ago. It “appears” that the Niners used that time to come up with the perfect game plan, it really doesn’t appear that the Jets did the same thing.
Even I, a 75 year old food salesman, knew that the Niners would exploit the Jets safeties and linebackers in the passing game and run where the Jet tackles were supposed to be. Maybe Leonard Taylor II could have helped close the sieve instead of being inactive.
To let a third string running back break as many tackles as he did is totally embarrassing
Yeah it's not going to be comfortable watching for the defense today but we know they are better than that. This was the toughest game on the schedule, its hard to start with that. I think we turn the page on this and look ahead to that Titans game. Thats a team we should dominate considering they're coming off a loss to a team who's rookie QB threw for under 100 yards. I don't like how we got pushed around last night, but willing to chalk it up to a one week thing until proven otherwise 😂
Honestly David, I don't think they are better than that against the run. The scheme and the personnel dictate what happen, and more often than not the Jets have been gashed by the run game by elite teams and ordinary teams consistently over the last 3 years.
Hard to switch horses after the first game but the Jets performance was terrible. Vrabel as a HC is certainly more accomplished than our current talking mouth.
I am hopeful that after getting their ass whipped will play a better game going forward and demonstrate the ability to stop the run.
As to the offense improvements will be made but….they did score 3 TDs which is progress. Certainly in comparison to last year!
The NFL is probably the only professional sport where if the MGR/ HC is fired an assistant is hired interim.
Knowing that Woody cruises social media 3:30 in the morning under the name of Woody the Pecker, I’m sure he will have one of his minions contacting Vrabel by Halloween if this team continues to come out flatter than a pancake
I am going to try the impossible, I will try to put down some thoughts without being emotional 15 minutes after the game. Considering that I am red headed, this will be a gargantuan task on my part.
I’m sure once David has gathered information and posted his thoughts, some of my thoughts will be dated.
San Francisco is a very good, talented team. I know Shanahan receives a lot of accolades for his coaching and offensive system
He wins many games and he definitely brings out the best of his players, yet, he has a propensity for losing the big game. Nothing can be worse than his idiotic 4th quarter play calling that guaranteed the Pats a Super Bowl trophy in 2017.
The Pats overcame a 25 point deficit in half of a quarter.
Saleh’s teams biggest trademark is that they start slow. Honestly, did they look ready tonight.
The 49ers scored on 8 consecutive drives. Do you know who scores on 8 consecutive drives in September football games. The University of Georgia against Savannah State or the Texas Longhorns when they play the Texas State University Fighting Armadillos.
The Jet defense especially Saleh’s pride and joy, the defensive line, were taken to the woodshed and received a very bad assbeating.
Saleh and Brick had no answers.
If this team wants to contend for a playoff spot, they must be ready to play their games at 15:00 mark of the first quarter not the usual 7:30 of the second quarter
Saleh said that Sauce didn’t play part of the game because he was catching his breath. Before Sauce became a part time sideline statue, Purdy was 3 for ten when Sauce was out, Purdy was 6 for 6. Doubtful he was catching his breath.
Some people on X were calling the game, the Reddick game.
Not so fast, Reddick’s strong suit isn’t exactly stopping the run and I’m sure if he was in the game his pass rushing ability would have been stymied the way it was for the rest of the Jet defensive line.
Jet hater Joe Buck was very coy in some of his remarks, he has no problem in giving digs to the Jets. The one thing he harped about a few times was how Lazard seem to redeem himself from last season’s disaster.
It appeared that Lazard had no problem catching the ball when the pressure was off.
His drop in the first quarter on a pass that was a layup not only killed a Jet drive also contributed to the Niners 8 straight scoring drives.
This post might wind up being the verbal equivalent of pissing into the wind. Let's go!
I caught the game on delay after recording it. Rodgers looked fine. The offensive line was giving him time. There was, of course, a little bit of discontinuity here and there, but they opened up some holes. Everybody knew they wouldn't all be on the same page right away given the practice habits of 2/5ths of the group and the fact that they were adding three new faces. The offensive side of the ball isn't the concern, for me at least.
The defense looked good, at times. Javon Kinlaw looked physical and locked in, at times. At others, he looked unsure of where he fit in the scheme. The same could be said of Tak McKinley. They leaned pretty heavily on Solomon Thomas, who was in there for over half of the defensive snaps. It's interesting to see how the defensive line rotation develops. Last year, you saw the rotation develop over the course of the season into one that included a heavy dose of Jonathan Franklin-Myers (in multiple roles) at 55%, Solomon Thomas doing the same thing with about 40%, and Quinton Jefferson getting his own unique pass-rusher role with 40%.
Last night was interesting, from a personnel perspective. The Jonathan Franklin-Myers and Quinton Jefferson snaps (70ish total snaps) were replaced by a mismash of players and positions. It wasn't always the same personnel grouping, either. Some of those snaps were replaced by a roles increasing (Solomon Thomas probably played 5-10 more snaps than usual), the usual suspects (Micheal Clemons in a very similar role), and new players (Javon Kinlaw largely taking all of Quinton Jefferson's snaps in addition to an increase overall usage). What's interesting is they changed up the personnel by dedicating a larger share of the gameplan to groupings with more linebackers on the field (Sherwood played 10-12 snaps more than you would expect, even accounting for Mosley missing nine plays).
What I found most interesting, and its something that bears watching, is how Whitecotton and Ulbrich seemed to be looking for the right combination of defensive linemen. Defensive line snaps counts:
*** The main dudes
Jermaine Johnson - 50 of 72 (69%)
Quinnen Williams - 48 of 72 (67%)
Javon Kinlaw - 41 of 72 (57%)
Solomon Thomas - 38 of 72 (53%)
Will McDonald - 35 of 72 (49%)
*** The rest
Micheal Clemons - 31 of 72 (43%)
Tak McKinley - 23 of 72 (32%)
Jalyn Holmes - 16 of 72 (22%)
Braiden McGregor - 8 of 72 (11%)
***
They seem to be pretty set with the main guys, but it looks like the rest of the rotation is filling out and establishing itself. It'll be really interesting to see how these groupings develop. I noticed that some of those runs that San Fran started to rip off were a result of the defensive line overpenetrating and second level not being able to overcompensate for those open gaps. Give these guys some time. They'll tighten things up. The track record of the defensive coaching staff is pretty strong.
And let's give the Saleh-bashing a break. He has, so far, made chicken salad out of chicken poop (at least when you consider the offensive talent he's been saddled with). I wouldn't say that the coaching staff, as a whole, has handled the offense particularly well, but there is only so much the actual head coach can do when other coach's roles are dictated to them (essentially, the Hackett and Rodgers hires). We can all agree that they messed up the Zach Wilson experiment, but it would've taken an extremely stable and well-established regime to have made that work (think a Shanahan....and even he couldn't make it work with Trey Lance). This was a young staff and young team learning a lot of stuff on the fly without a seasoned hand to guide things. They clearly learned a lot in the last few years. I've never been particularly bothered by Saleh's coach-speak because that's how coaches talk to the media. It is baked into the experience. Don't try to glean special underlying information from post-game comments or press conference statements. You'll wind up in a similar situation to my long and futile attempt to process a somewhat disappointing start to another Jets season:
David, top 3 defense? No! Top 5 defense ? NO! Top 20 defense? Maybe 🤔 But until this team is able to stop the run ( especially the inside run) it’s just not that good. I get the leadership Mosley provides but he’s just not that good. NFL defenses are designed to funnel the run game inside where all the big boots reside. If you look at every teams year end stats the inside linebackers almost always have the most tackles. So making a big deal of his tackle totals is misleading. The majority of his tackles come way down field. He’s our modern day Kyle Clifton. 😂 I know that comment will get my buddy Bobber going😂
Ron, I’m sure that every time that Kyle Clifton ( the J-E-T-S all time leading tackler) made a tackle 15 yds downfield, your reaction was like a newborn’s father, chest out, glowing with pride, giving out cigars, saying “ You see that number 59, that’s my boy”
I’m not one for making predictions or at least predictions that are right but I will make one today.
David, congratulations, I guarantee that the Jet Way today will totally obliterate the record for most comments. A really busy day shows around 35-40, today might exceed over 60 because some of the heavy hitters haven’t added their two cents.
Excellent summary of the game, David! The only thing you left out was how bad the officiating was.
I thought that the game was disgusting. I don't know which was worse, the ineptness of the offense or that of the defense.
The Jets' starting OL had 3 weeks of practice together. Those gaping holes they opened in the run game, were in practices against the Jets' D and against bad teams in joint practices. I didn't see many holes last night. T. Smith was beaten badly a number of times. I was ready to call for Fashanu to replace him.
Breece looked awful. After having 4-5 catches on the first scoring drive, they didn't throw the ball to Wilson again for quite a while. That's stupid. Conklin was invisible. Did Ruckert even play? AVT looked bad.
The comments by several of how the vaunted DL was pushed around like UGA against a weak team are totally on point. Other teams have a clear map of how to beat the Jets. Punch 'em in the mouth and they'll fold. I can't believe that I was so stupid to believe that this team could win last night or have a tinker's damn of a chance of getting to a SB. A top 5 D should not play like the Jets' D last night. They looked like frauds.
The Jets attempt at tackling was a disgrace. I get that there's little, if any, tackling in TC, but there's no excuse for any player in the NFL not being able to tackle. That's a basic skill. SF didn't seem to struggle with tackling.
I've spent 60 years rooting for this team, and if things don't improve greatly, that time is coming to a close.
We can discuss the "gase" offense of running into a what was a shit oline for no gain. We can discuss drafting a guy (Allen) and not using him on a 2 pt or a 4th and 1. We can discuss how bad the D-Line was. Ive said for years not playing in preeason comes with a price. HOWEVER - this is the main point: If the team was a winning team and they have been in the playoffs the past 4 years ok write it off. FOR THIS FANBASE FOR THE YEARS OF LOSING THEY DIDNT BOTHER TO SHOW UP ON OPENING NIGHT - THERE IS NO PRODE IN THE JERSEY, THIER FANS OR TRYING TO WIN A GAME. THATS WHAT IS DISGUSTING AND HAS GONE ON FOR YEARS YEARS !
I think the Jets got played by a better coaching staff last night. They were more prepared and they had a gameplan to exploit our weaknesses, and our gameplan was hard to decipher. I won't worry until I see the reaction, if we don't see a reaction against Tennessee then it's time to get really concerned.
The next few games will be telling. I think the overall talent in our team substantially exceeds that of our HC. That I feel is a foundational weakness that is not easy to overcome and is evident and more pronounced when playing against a coach such as Shanahan!
For all of the platitudes that were heaped on Braelon Allen why wasn’t he used for the two pointer and 4th and one run is the $64,000 question then again Hackett is the supposed OC. Maybe Rodgers liked the call but didn’t consider Allen
By the way, after the first week of the 2024 season, the Jets are sole possessors of last place in the AFC East with Buffalo, New England and Miami winning their opening tilts.
I'm not too concerned about that, I think they all looked pretty vulnerable. Bills and Dolphins should have lost if the Cardinals/Jags didn't shoot themselves in the foot and I still don't think New England will win more than 5 games this season.
Jets need a showing in Tennessee, if they play how we think they will play, then go and beat New England, well then this game will be a distant memory.
We start at Zero! But Zero has its symmetry and after this drubbing let’s see how the next few games go. My concern is mainly defensive, I’m pretty sure the offense will improve. Though the Jets played against a very good offense, it was really troubling that they couldn’t stop the run. If this trend continues with Tennessee I will start to worry!
Three points;
- not playing starters in preseason proved to be a disaster as some of us predicted - the team was rusty and timid on D. Aggressiveness cones with confidence, and confidence cones from playing not talking
- Linebackers failed Jets terribly. Did Quincy Williams even play last night? Mosley looks slow and old. Huge issue here going forward. Blood is the water - remember that the 49er O line is not historically strong except for Williams and he just got off the bus
- Jets got played by 49ers. They knew McCaffrey wasn’t playing all along - huge benefit to have Jets thinking they have false advantage minutes before game.
I would like to see a study on how teams perform in week one having not played in the pre-season in comparison to those teams who do play in the pre-season.
Agree, especially since I think it is rare to not play any starters. Saleh owns this mess and doesn’t have Zach Wilson to blame things on any more.
Tennessee is a big game. I had this game as a loss on my schedule predictions, but we need to beat a very beatable Titans team. No excuses.
Agree.
But it will be a sickening week with all the HR chatter. He would not have made any difference last night.
Not at all. I don't understand why people were talking about it. He has no kpre leverage this morning than he did yesterday morning. Now if the DEs cant get preasure on Levis next week, thats a different matter all together.
One of Saleh’s biggest issues is he talks a big game, a loss in Tennessee will have the Torch and Pitchfork Brigade desending on Florham Park.
Completely agree. He is a talker and media darling. And the brigade should show up. A bit of irony being in Tennessee next week - they should have grabbed Vrabel as soon as he was available. Just my opinion.
100% in agreement with the Vrabel remark, then again, it appears Saleh was saved from the guillotine because Rodgers appeared to like him and Woody being a terrible owner in the personnel department didn’t want to upset the apple cart
I'm still not sold on Saleh as a head coach, but I also think that the season is so young it's hard to make any pronouncements. Titans, Patriots, Broncos, Vikings all up next, there's a very good chance the Jets are sitting here at 4-1 after those and then it looks a lot different.
I guess I’m gonna be Mr.Disagreeable today because bookmarking this defense to be a top 5 unit for me is unrealistic. We can’t stop the run. This game was no fluke. There have been many one score losses where we couldn’t stop the run when it mattered and ended up loosing games without getting that late opportunity on offense to come back. That wide 9 scheme is great for rushing the QB but it’s not a great run stopping scheme. Being spread so thin creates easy blocking angles and teams run through our A gaps like they have an “EASY PASS”!
I concur! With a lead, the wide 9 is a good defensive plan, but if our defense can’t stop the run, we are in trouble. Granted that SF is one of the best teams in the league, the team’s defensive failure may reflect that we do not belong on the level of SF. If we see this issue the next few weeks, the inability to run stop may upend the season. Maybe an Al Woods unmovable object in the middle would help! We shall see.
I second that emotion Ron. It was pitiful last night for the defense. And you are absolutely correct about the wide 9, it's a huge liability against the run. Add to that the 4-2-5 setup where the LB's are only 25 lbs. or so heavier than the corners and safeties. They get run over up the middle and on wide plays their lateral speed is great, but they don't have the mass to stop a well-designed and well-executed run play. And what gets me is that this has been happening like clockwork for the last 3 years. If you go back and look at game films, opponents' drives are extended again and again because the failure to stop the run.
The missed tackles are a hallmark of lack of tackling in preseason. It’s not just a NY Jets issue. Training camp doesn’t allow tackling! The way the NFL is set up today, you really don’t know what team you have until at least week 3/4. That’s what used to be a normal preseason. Everyone hates preseason injuries and whatnot, injuries are a part of the game. You need actual press games to get ready with live action and you cannot really simulate all the elements.
Saleh clearly prefers pass rushing DT over run stuffers. We had foley year 1, a good player against run but he was not good in this defense. They booted him. Year 2 they got a more athletic DT- Rankins. He sucked year 1 but then they saw something in latter games and brought him back. He was very good in his 2nd year. Then he got a big contract. We swapped him for QJefferson another pass rush first DT but for us he was pretty decent against run. However the big shift in thought was bringing in Al Woods a perennial run stuffer. Unfortunately he got hurt.
So this year we bring in Kinlaw who is a better pass rusher than Run stuffer. However he CAN be a good player against run yet no one has seen it. Saleh loves him, drafted him, and believes in his potential. 🤷🏾♂️. The success of Our defense depends on him a great deal. Q is always going to make his mark but if they can just double him and run up the other side, we are in for a long year on D.
Moreover, this issue is philosophical. Saleh believes in aggressive upfield disruption, and will concede the cutbacks and draw plays. Her feels that while his Dnwill give up yardage on ground, eventually in a series one of his gap penetrating DL will force a loss. At that point, then pass rush engages and he wins. He doesn’t think that what happened last night is sustainable for most teams. Consistent 10-12-14 play drives with majority runs without a negative stop or penalty to put them behind the sticks.
Hard to argue with him as he has been a top 5 DEf Coordinator for a decade. It’s a combination of Pete Carrol’s D and The old Philly Wide 9, coupled with some M2M and Quarters coverages on back end.
I’ve always had an issue with the run concession. In fact I bagged the table for T’Vondre Sweat in draft when he fell to 3rd. Everyone wanted the WR and I get it, but IDL was just as important. I think we could have traded back into 3rd and took sweat. However that would have cost us Stiggers or Allen’s.
Hang in there gents, it game 1, basically pre season.
Excellent insight and perspective. However, if IDL play and tackling does not improve, then Shanahan has drawn up the blueprint of how to beat the NY Jets!
This is very true with the Saleh/Ulbrich defense. They run a gap-penetration style defense. Jets supporters who loved the Rex Ryan teams will notice that the teams, despite both being great defenses, were great in different ways. Those Rex Ryan-led units featured enormous defensive linemen with enormous linebackers in an effort to always control the point of attack, creating a wall of defenders. Those units weren't designed for penetration. The nose is likely attempting to 2-gap (control multiple gaps at once) and the ends are holding their ground while controlling their gap. They grab as many blockers as possible so that the linebackers can come fill their gap assignment, resulting in no running lanes.
This Saleh/Ulbrich defense is a whole different animal. It's predicated on penetration, with the defensive linemen attempting to defeat their blocks and get upfield. The reason that stuff like this can work is that it throws the blocking scheme into disarray. The defensive line tries to knife through the blocking scheme (while attempting to maintain gap-integrity) in order to create the kind of disruption that blows up how a play should be blocked. Sound tackling on the backend is a must, which is probably why Jets supporters are steaming. Don't get me wrong; the coaching staff is steaming, as well. They, however, understand that, when everybody executes their assignment, it works. Trust me on this; the Xs and Os are sound. It's not as if they're running some kind of incoherent defense. There are, clearly, some guys who weren't executing their assignments and that will be a point of emphasis during the practices this week. If you trust that there is at least starter-level talent on the backend, the scheme should work. Give it time.
This was a really painful game to watch. They ran thru the defense like it was swiss cheese. I am curious what Ulbrich will say on Thursday. This is a definite must win game next Sunday with a statement needed to be made, especially by the defense. I am having a hard time remembering when I really enjoyed watching a Jets game. i must be a masochist :)
They played like Sh… Or like an exlax overdose in a constipated old man!
After sleeping on it after a totally disastrous defensive display, if this team comes out the next few weeks and displays the same slow start that seems to be Saleh’s M O.
Then I really think that Woody should start having talks with Mike Vrabel.
This teams window of success is barely ajar due to Rodgers age. This year and maybe next year will be it.
The Jets as an organization need a HC who can get this team ready from the opening minute. Saleh has yet to show he can do it.
He claims he saw a lot of good last night, I must have been watching a different game.
I saw some good, the performance of Lazard outside the drop is a marked improvement on last season. I thought the protection by and large was good, Rodgers got hit and was fine...that's a positive. Rodgers wasn't perfect but considering that was his real first competitive game in around 600 days, I think it's understandable.
I think the defence needed this humbling and they'll be better for it in the long run
Well, when you watch the ALL 22 you will no doubt note that two of the ball Lazard did catch were double catches. And that drop was another drive killer. Lazard being better was not exactly a big deal for me because last years performance set a really low bar.
As long as he catches it he can double or triple catch it. That drop was a poor one which impacted us, but overall i thoight as a whole he had a good game.
David, you might be ok with the double catch’s but if the Jets are paying attention I guarantee you they are concerned. It’s important. If you don’t catch it clean it affords the defender an opportunity to knock it away. Along the sidelines it can lead to a referee calling an incompletion if it’s initially touched in but a foot may come down out by the time it’s finally secured. Brian Baldinger brought it up this morning on his segment on WFAN’s mid morning show.
I wonder if Lazard has always been a guy who has had trouble being a hands catcher. He is always really tough, physically, and makes the athletic part of the play. The hand-eye part sometimes falls below expectations. Maybe that is, simply, what you trade off for those physical traits in a 3rd or 4th receiver. They should figure out ways to generate easy looks for him. He's not a contested catch machine.
Danny Boy, yes it’s been an issue and at this point I’m not sure there’s a fix. Pretty sure it’s bwhy his targets to completion numbers aren’t very good.
I don't think hand-eye coordination is something that is imminently fixable. It's a scenario where they'd need to scheme him into productive situations. Harness that athleticism!
Exactly 👍 And looking at the all 22 that’s exactly what they did. On each pass thrown his way he was literally schemed open. He’s 6’5 225 so his body alone can create some separation. But he’s not quick or nimble so he can be the beneficiary of some rub routes or crossers.
Part of my displeasure is that the schedule was announced on May 15th, approximately 4 months ago. It “appears” that the Niners used that time to come up with the perfect game plan, it really doesn’t appear that the Jets did the same thing.
Even I, a 75 year old food salesman, knew that the Niners would exploit the Jets safeties and linebackers in the passing game and run where the Jet tackles were supposed to be. Maybe Leonard Taylor II could have helped close the sieve instead of being inactive.
To let a third string running back break as many tackles as he did is totally embarrassing
Yeah it's not going to be comfortable watching for the defense today but we know they are better than that. This was the toughest game on the schedule, its hard to start with that. I think we turn the page on this and look ahead to that Titans game. Thats a team we should dominate considering they're coming off a loss to a team who's rookie QB threw for under 100 yards. I don't like how we got pushed around last night, but willing to chalk it up to a one week thing until proven otherwise 😂
Honestly David, I don't think they are better than that against the run. The scheme and the personnel dictate what happen, and more often than not the Jets have been gashed by the run game by elite teams and ordinary teams consistently over the last 3 years.
Hard to switch horses after the first game but the Jets performance was terrible. Vrabel as a HC is certainly more accomplished than our current talking mouth.
I am hopeful that after getting their ass whipped will play a better game going forward and demonstrate the ability to stop the run.
As to the offense improvements will be made but….they did score 3 TDs which is progress. Certainly in comparison to last year!
The NFL is probably the only professional sport where if the MGR/ HC is fired an assistant is hired interim.
Knowing that Woody cruises social media 3:30 in the morning under the name of Woody the Pecker, I’m sure he will have one of his minions contacting Vrabel by Halloween if this team continues to come out flatter than a pancake
Saleh is an empty suit, and he proved the fact last year and it looks like it's a redux, lol.
Mike, I totally agree! He’s the very definition of a talking head. He gives us nothing!
I agree. If he saw a lot of good, which game was he watching ?
I am going to try the impossible, I will try to put down some thoughts without being emotional 15 minutes after the game. Considering that I am red headed, this will be a gargantuan task on my part.
I’m sure once David has gathered information and posted his thoughts, some of my thoughts will be dated.
San Francisco is a very good, talented team. I know Shanahan receives a lot of accolades for his coaching and offensive system
He wins many games and he definitely brings out the best of his players, yet, he has a propensity for losing the big game. Nothing can be worse than his idiotic 4th quarter play calling that guaranteed the Pats a Super Bowl trophy in 2017.
The Pats overcame a 25 point deficit in half of a quarter.
Saleh’s teams biggest trademark is that they start slow. Honestly, did they look ready tonight.
The 49ers scored on 8 consecutive drives. Do you know who scores on 8 consecutive drives in September football games. The University of Georgia against Savannah State or the Texas Longhorns when they play the Texas State University Fighting Armadillos.
The Jet defense especially Saleh’s pride and joy, the defensive line, were taken to the woodshed and received a very bad assbeating.
Saleh and Brick had no answers.
If this team wants to contend for a playoff spot, they must be ready to play their games at 15:00 mark of the first quarter not the usual 7:30 of the second quarter
Saleh said that Sauce didn’t play part of the game because he was catching his breath. Before Sauce became a part time sideline statue, Purdy was 3 for ten when Sauce was out, Purdy was 6 for 6. Doubtful he was catching his breath.
Some people on X were calling the game, the Reddick game.
Not so fast, Reddick’s strong suit isn’t exactly stopping the run and I’m sure if he was in the game his pass rushing ability would have been stymied the way it was for the rest of the Jet defensive line.
Jet hater Joe Buck was very coy in some of his remarks, he has no problem in giving digs to the Jets. The one thing he harped about a few times was how Lazard seem to redeem himself from last season’s disaster.
It appeared that Lazard had no problem catching the ball when the pressure was off.
His drop in the first quarter on a pass that was a layup not only killed a Jet drive also contributed to the Niners 8 straight scoring drives.
This post might wind up being the verbal equivalent of pissing into the wind. Let's go!
I caught the game on delay after recording it. Rodgers looked fine. The offensive line was giving him time. There was, of course, a little bit of discontinuity here and there, but they opened up some holes. Everybody knew they wouldn't all be on the same page right away given the practice habits of 2/5ths of the group and the fact that they were adding three new faces. The offensive side of the ball isn't the concern, for me at least.
The defense looked good, at times. Javon Kinlaw looked physical and locked in, at times. At others, he looked unsure of where he fit in the scheme. The same could be said of Tak McKinley. They leaned pretty heavily on Solomon Thomas, who was in there for over half of the defensive snaps. It's interesting to see how the defensive line rotation develops. Last year, you saw the rotation develop over the course of the season into one that included a heavy dose of Jonathan Franklin-Myers (in multiple roles) at 55%, Solomon Thomas doing the same thing with about 40%, and Quinton Jefferson getting his own unique pass-rusher role with 40%.
Last night was interesting, from a personnel perspective. The Jonathan Franklin-Myers and Quinton Jefferson snaps (70ish total snaps) were replaced by a mismash of players and positions. It wasn't always the same personnel grouping, either. Some of those snaps were replaced by a roles increasing (Solomon Thomas probably played 5-10 more snaps than usual), the usual suspects (Micheal Clemons in a very similar role), and new players (Javon Kinlaw largely taking all of Quinton Jefferson's snaps in addition to an increase overall usage). What's interesting is they changed up the personnel by dedicating a larger share of the gameplan to groupings with more linebackers on the field (Sherwood played 10-12 snaps more than you would expect, even accounting for Mosley missing nine plays).
What I found most interesting, and its something that bears watching, is how Whitecotton and Ulbrich seemed to be looking for the right combination of defensive linemen. Defensive line snaps counts:
*** The main dudes
Jermaine Johnson - 50 of 72 (69%)
Quinnen Williams - 48 of 72 (67%)
Javon Kinlaw - 41 of 72 (57%)
Solomon Thomas - 38 of 72 (53%)
Will McDonald - 35 of 72 (49%)
*** The rest
Micheal Clemons - 31 of 72 (43%)
Tak McKinley - 23 of 72 (32%)
Jalyn Holmes - 16 of 72 (22%)
Braiden McGregor - 8 of 72 (11%)
***
They seem to be pretty set with the main guys, but it looks like the rest of the rotation is filling out and establishing itself. It'll be really interesting to see how these groupings develop. I noticed that some of those runs that San Fran started to rip off were a result of the defensive line overpenetrating and second level not being able to overcompensate for those open gaps. Give these guys some time. They'll tighten things up. The track record of the defensive coaching staff is pretty strong.
And let's give the Saleh-bashing a break. He has, so far, made chicken salad out of chicken poop (at least when you consider the offensive talent he's been saddled with). I wouldn't say that the coaching staff, as a whole, has handled the offense particularly well, but there is only so much the actual head coach can do when other coach's roles are dictated to them (essentially, the Hackett and Rodgers hires). We can all agree that they messed up the Zach Wilson experiment, but it would've taken an extremely stable and well-established regime to have made that work (think a Shanahan....and even he couldn't make it work with Trey Lance). This was a young staff and young team learning a lot of stuff on the fly without a seasoned hand to guide things. They clearly learned a lot in the last few years. I've never been particularly bothered by Saleh's coach-speak because that's how coaches talk to the media. It is baked into the experience. Don't try to glean special underlying information from post-game comments or press conference statements. You'll wind up in a similar situation to my long and futile attempt to process a somewhat disappointing start to another Jets season:
pissing into the wind.
David, top 3 defense? No! Top 5 defense ? NO! Top 20 defense? Maybe 🤔 But until this team is able to stop the run ( especially the inside run) it’s just not that good. I get the leadership Mosley provides but he’s just not that good. NFL defenses are designed to funnel the run game inside where all the big boots reside. If you look at every teams year end stats the inside linebackers almost always have the most tackles. So making a big deal of his tackle totals is misleading. The majority of his tackles come way down field. He’s our modern day Kyle Clifton. 😂 I know that comment will get my buddy Bobber going😂
Ron, I’m sure that every time that Kyle Clifton ( the J-E-T-S all time leading tackler) made a tackle 15 yds downfield, your reaction was like a newborn’s father, chest out, glowing with pride, giving out cigars, saying “ You see that number 59, that’s my boy”
I’m not one for making predictions or at least predictions that are right but I will make one today.
David, congratulations, I guarantee that the Jet Way today will totally obliterate the record for most comments. A really busy day shows around 35-40, today might exceed over 60 because some of the heavy hitters haven’t added their two cents.
Great job David
Let's hope so Bobber. It's a good day to dissect what we saw, sure there is going to be a lot of disappointment but hopefully some hope as well.
You are the “ Rock of Reason” that pulls some of us Jet fans away from the cliff of despair.
You are like the Dr Phil of Football.
That's the first time I've ever been called the Dr Phil of Football, and on this dreary Tuesday morning following a loss, I'll take it!
lol
Excellent summary of the game, David! The only thing you left out was how bad the officiating was.
I thought that the game was disgusting. I don't know which was worse, the ineptness of the offense or that of the defense.
The Jets' starting OL had 3 weeks of practice together. Those gaping holes they opened in the run game, were in practices against the Jets' D and against bad teams in joint practices. I didn't see many holes last night. T. Smith was beaten badly a number of times. I was ready to call for Fashanu to replace him.
Breece looked awful. After having 4-5 catches on the first scoring drive, they didn't throw the ball to Wilson again for quite a while. That's stupid. Conklin was invisible. Did Ruckert even play? AVT looked bad.
The comments by several of how the vaunted DL was pushed around like UGA against a weak team are totally on point. Other teams have a clear map of how to beat the Jets. Punch 'em in the mouth and they'll fold. I can't believe that I was so stupid to believe that this team could win last night or have a tinker's damn of a chance of getting to a SB. A top 5 D should not play like the Jets' D last night. They looked like frauds.
The Jets attempt at tackling was a disgrace. I get that there's little, if any, tackling in TC, but there's no excuse for any player in the NFL not being able to tackle. That's a basic skill. SF didn't seem to struggle with tackling.
I've spent 60 years rooting for this team, and if things don't improve greatly, that time is coming to a close.
Disappointing indeed. I found the inability to stop the run very bad, then again they weren’t particularly effective with respect to the pass either!
We can discuss the "gase" offense of running into a what was a shit oline for no gain. We can discuss drafting a guy (Allen) and not using him on a 2 pt or a 4th and 1. We can discuss how bad the D-Line was. Ive said for years not playing in preeason comes with a price. HOWEVER - this is the main point: If the team was a winning team and they have been in the playoffs the past 4 years ok write it off. FOR THIS FANBASE FOR THE YEARS OF LOSING THEY DIDNT BOTHER TO SHOW UP ON OPENING NIGHT - THERE IS NO PRODE IN THE JERSEY, THIER FANS OR TRYING TO WIN A GAME. THATS WHAT IS DISGUSTING AND HAS GONE ON FOR YEARS YEARS !
I think the Jets got played by a better coaching staff last night. They were more prepared and they had a gameplan to exploit our weaknesses, and our gameplan was hard to decipher. I won't worry until I see the reaction, if we don't see a reaction against Tennessee then it's time to get really concerned.
The next few games will be telling. I think the overall talent in our team substantially exceeds that of our HC. That I feel is a foundational weakness that is not easy to overcome and is evident and more pronounced when playing against a coach such as Shanahan!
You have the best offense remark of the day.
For all of the platitudes that were heaped on Braelon Allen why wasn’t he used for the two pointer and 4th and one run is the $64,000 question then again Hackett is the supposed OC. Maybe Rodgers liked the call but didn’t consider Allen
Maybe The Hacker didn't realize that Allen could probably bust up the middle, just like he didn't realize Hall could catch the ball last year.
How appropriate for the jets OC to forget that Allen is a RB, rumor has it that can’t Hackett thought he played on the defensive side of the team.
By the way, after the first week of the 2024 season, the Jets are sole possessors of last place in the AFC East with Buffalo, New England and Miami winning their opening tilts.
I'm not too concerned about that, I think they all looked pretty vulnerable. Bills and Dolphins should have lost if the Cardinals/Jags didn't shoot themselves in the foot and I still don't think New England will win more than 5 games this season.
Jets need a showing in Tennessee, if they play how we think they will play, then go and beat New England, well then this game will be a distant memory.
I agree they all look very vulnerable but they all did the one thing the Jets couldn’t do, find a way to win.
True enough. Well at least one of the Bills/Dolphins will need to lose this week
With the Jets luck, yes I know they are playing each other, they’ll both win. lol
Patriots host the Seahawks and they had a little edgy win against Denver, so that could go either way
We start at Zero! But Zero has its symmetry and after this drubbing let’s see how the next few games go. My concern is mainly defensive, I’m pretty sure the offense will improve. Though the Jets played against a very good offense, it was really troubling that they couldn’t stop the run. If this trend continues with Tennessee I will start to worry!