If you give a child a hammer and that child starts banging holes in the wall and you continually watch as the child bangs holes in the wall, and you do nothing about it, whose fault is it the child or yours.
Substitue the child with the hammer to Saleh running the team as HC or Hackett attempting to run the offense as OC.
Who is responsible for this disaster, whether he likes it or not, it falls into Woody’s lap.
Unfortunately the way a professional football team is structured, you can fire the coach but you are then forced to hire someone off of his staff . I can never recall a team firing its HC and replacing him with an outsider.
We know some fans will say Ulbrich or Middleton or Oden.
But are they the answer. Maybe only as interim.
The NFL has become an analytical league. Everything is based on numbers. The human element is not a consideration.
But Jet fans, do you need analytics to tell you that a Saleh coached team starts slow almost every game, do you need analytics to tell you that the Jets are an undisciplined team, do you need analytics to tell you that it appears a Saleh coached team never makes halftime adjustments.
Do you need analytics to tell you that Hackett is an absolutely terrible OC, do you need analytics to prove to you that Hackett’s schemes are
juvenile at best. The word innovator has never been used in the same sentence with the name Hackett whether the first name was Paul or Nate.
Football writer, Connor Rodgers asked this question after the game “What do they do all week”. I guess he was referring to Saleh and Hackett. Maybe someone could ask JD or Woody.
It is time for Woody to grab the hammer. Yes, the Jets are 2-3, the season is still salvageable for a shot at the playoffs but does any fan actually believe that.
Woody definitely needs to fire Hackett today. Taking the play calling away from him, will not eliminate the stink of his infantile game plans. Does that wording sound harsh, yes, but not as harsh as 55 cold winters without a Super Bowl appearance.
Carter is definitely a candidate for hammer time. He came here with a very questionable reputation, has that reputation change not really.
The Broncos blitzed the hell out of the Jets offense last week, did you notice any changes in the Jets blitz assignments yesterday, of course not. The NFL is a copy cat league, the Bills and Steelers front lines are already licking their chops to get after Rodgers. Have you seen anything that tells you it won’t happen.
Lastly Saleh is toast, his BS is done carrying him. It doesn’t matter if he loses the fans, it will matter when he loses the locker room.
Based on how this team has played this year, excluding the Pat game would it really matter if the Jets got rid of Saleh, Hackett and Carter this week. Could it get any more embarrassing, very doubtful. They play next Monday night, the extra day would let the new assignment get accustomed to their new responsibilities.
Hire Uhlbrich or Boyer as head coach
Downing as OC
Ben Wilkerson as offensive line coach.
Woody it is hammer time, this would probably be the only moves that you will make as Jet owner that will have a big majority of the fans endorsement.
For the sake of this season, use the hammer🔨 . This will only get worst if you let it fester.
Hiring Saleh with his “ all gas, no brakes” has turned out to be a mistake. He is not the first very good coordinator to fail as a coach.
But keeping him at this point is a recipe for a disaster.
It’s time to call in the receipts like Saleh once said.
Woody, your fan base is tired of watching the child hammer holes into the wall.
To be fair to Saleh (as I always am), the defensive side of the ball and the previous offense led by LaFleur made adjustments. The defensive side, actually, is known for making adjustments and settling in. The offense, however, feels like an unfolded lawn chair. It's as if the position groups rarely comunicate.
Excellent Bobber !!!!! You are echoing my sentiments exactly. But as far as replacements, I would name Ron Middleton as HC, the team needs an offensive guy as HC in my opinion, but I wouldn't scoff at Ulbrich or Boyer as HC. I don't know anything about Ben Wilkerson, but he cannot be worse than Carter. Michael Nania at Jets X-Factor wrote an excellent article about the subject in question, and he came up pretty much with the same solution. This needs to end now. And your point about the changes not being earth-shattering in the interim is spot-on. It can't get any worse.
The Jets should have offered a king's ransom to Mike Westhoff years ago, he would have been an excellent head coach and possibly gotten the team on the right track. Boyer has done a great job over his time with the Jets, but I would still favor Middleton. But either one would work for me. Ulbrich should stay where he is.
Westhoff was a very prominent, outspoken coach in the war room during the draft for years.
One time he got into a big argument with Herm leading up to the Jets first round pick. Herm wanted Bryan Thomas, Westoff wanted Ed Reed.
Herm won out, Reed went to the Hall of Fame
When Idzik got hired, he banned Westoff from all draft meetings and the war room. Westoff said I retire, that lasted about a year, he became the Saints ST coach. Probably oils have been a good HC, his better days are probably behind him unfortunately
I wasn't referring to looking to hire him, just that someone with his experience and knowledge of the game would be a good move. I remember when that happened about Reed and Thomas. He wasn't a bad player, but not what they expected of him.
It is painful to watch the Jets play, SOJ, Jetsies…whatever. Looking at the talent across this roster and its performance leads to the inevitable conclusion that the team is rotten to the core. That core being the coaching staff. Failure to game plan, slow starts, penalties and an utter lack of ability to adjust intra-game.
Changes are warranted and though firing the HC and OC at the beginning of the season seems rash, until u remove the cancer this patient is dying. Either that or expect a Roger’s retirement post season with a housecleaning and rebuild to follow. A scenario which is all too familiar to members on this site!
Everyone is finding out what I was saying last year - the problem was not Zach Wilson, it was the horrible coaching staff, who used Zach Wilson as a scapegoat.
The media and fans threw the kid under the bus - it was a dialogue Saleh was happy to align with. If only we had a HOF QB everyone said, it would all be different, remember? Do all these games feel eerily familiar? These were clearly what was labeled last year ‘Zach Wilson’ games - slow start, no run game, poor o-line play, QB getting hit, leaning completely on the D that lets you down in the end, massive penalties, and picks while trying to come back from behind. This is what a Robert Saleh team is!!
Aaron Rodgers cannot overcome zero discipline, a dumb coach who doesn’t kick a field goal early in the game to get on the board, and terrible play calling.
I really don’t think Saleh will be missed mid season if you bring in Vrabel. I doubt he would do it though. Belicheat would do it, but fans like me would walk away. Ulbrich is the logical internal candidate. I can live with that.
Doug, you make some good points. This is one of those “ the more things change the more they stay the same” scenarios. I’m not gonna go along with keeping Wilson being a solution as he’s currently buried on Denver”s depth chart which was where he should have been here instead of being thrown to the wolves. A more pertinent point at this time is the way he was handled is part of Bobber’s never ending diatribe concerning our inability or unwillingness to learn from our failures and make adjustments. Never mind the halftime or bye week failures the failures go back to Sam Darnold who was pressed into service when we had Teddy B and Josh McCowen. That failed. So we draft Wilson and do the same to him? Unfortunately Dis functionality is our trade mark!
Exactly! Draft the untested, if talented, young quarterback and expect him to be an outlier when it comes to learning an NFL offense for the first time...I know that almost all NFL teams do that, but it rarely works. I wanted Teddy back then. I wanted Brissett after him. Then again; why bring in an Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Jacoby Brissett, Gardner Minshew, etc when you can sell ownership on something possibly working out further down the line? Perhaps Bryce Young works out. What's nice is that you can sell ownership on the prospect that he DOES work out, and you have job security in the mean time. It's systemic.
You're right that they largely used Wilson as a scapegoat (as did the legacy media, a lot of fans, talking heads, etc). I'd quibble with the suggestion that anything involving Nathaniel Hackett is a "Saleh team." I think that the most quintessentially "Saleh team" were those Jets teams when Zach Wilson was hurt and they were starting Flacco or White. He probably wanted an offense that needs, at least, an average veteran quarterback who can simply run the offense and make the easy reads. It isn't flashy, but it, when combined with that defense, makes for a competitive team. Zach Wilson could've fit, but he needed to sit and learn for a bit. Whoever made the call to roll with him and not bring in Flacco until later in the season definitely has blood (figuratively) on their hands. I still like Saleh, but this arranged marriage with Hackett and Rodgers just isn't healthy for anybody.
Danny Boy, agree mostly but not on Saleh! He hasn’t come close to convincing me he’s not way in over his head. I’m not totally solid on the Giants Brian Daboll but as the clock was winding down in Seattle he made several strategic moves that ensured their “W”! I seriously thought any of those moves would have even occurred to Saleh. Players and assistant coaches have come and gone on his watch but he remains the one of the few constant problems. Michael Nania did a great piece on Saleh today on the Jets X-Factor. It’s so on the money….
I, at this point, definitely think that Saleh and the Jets will need to separate at the end of the season. It's way too toxic and he hasn't handled the situation well enough. Brian Daboll, actually, seems to have put together something that could last with the Gints. He has periodically taken the lemons given to him and made lemonade. Saleh, though...the Jets, if they were to not make the playoffs this year, would not be able to make a case for giving Saleh a chance with another coordinator. He had his choice and it didn't work out. He was paired with Hackett because somebody (Woody?) wanted Aaron Rodgers and that has been a strain. He doesn't seem comfortable as the leader, anymore, and I have a hunch that his authority and standing as the leader of this team was diminished when they brought in Hackett and Rodgers. He so clearly doesn't have the authority to crack the whip so he's kind of like a lame duck. It sucks because I like the dude.
Another painful game to watch even though the score doesn't indicate it. Even though Rodgers was bad, he was under constant pressure from the beginning and there were no holes for the runners unless I am not seeing something correctly. I also root for the Giants and watching Daniel Jones with a much cleaner pocket made me jealous. Rodgers must be as well :) At this rate, he will be out for the season injured soon. I actually enjoyed watching the Giants game even though there were a couple of blunders especially when Gray fumbled at the 1 yard line and they took it back 101. How is it that Van Ginkel can get pick 6's against against both the Jets and Giants? As Bobber wrote, Salah, Hackett and Carter need to go. Will Woody do it even though he too is inept? Unfortunately, he is another version of Richie Rich. I wud go with Boyer as the head coach and leave Ulbrich where he is. What are Lazard's hands made out of? I also really don't want to hear AVT say again that they played theirs asses off. We had 4 sacks, however to my eye there wasn't really any pressure. Maybe there is something wrong with my eyes :). 36 yards total rushing. Absolutely pathetic.
It boggles the mind that a first ballot Hall of Famer like Tyron Smith looks mediocre, and John Simpson and Morgan Moses, proven veteran o-linemen, look lost out there. To me it's the blocking schemes of Carter combined with the ludicrous offensive plans of The Hacker. And at this rate, AR won't last too much longer. Getting hit 10+ times in two straight games has hurt him, you can see it on the field by the way he moves. In the two last games he has a sore knee and a low ankle sprain after all the pounding. When a QB has lower body issues, the throws are harder to make and are less effective. We saw this last week and yesterday, as AR was pretty much hobbling. He basically is a statue out there. That was one of the reasons I was bitterly against the whole AR debacle.
And your comment about pressures is spot on. I know Old McDonald has 6 sacks, but that figure is illusory, as he is getting slammed on run plays and has gotten lucky on 3 or 4 of those sacks. JD's worst error was trading JMF for a can of soda and a bag of chips. They REALLY need him now. And Leonard Taylor needs to get more snaps, he can be very disruptive at DT. The Jets have to pray that Fotu can fill the bill at DT as a run-stuffer, as his career record against the run is mediocre at best.
You might be onto something regarding McDonald. He sometimes looks like he's going all or nothing for pressures and winds up getting washed or losing pocket integrity. He spends a lot of time on the ground.
I don't know if you are subscribed to Jets X-Factor, but Rivka Boord or Joe Blewett did a thorough examination of all of McDonald's sacks and other plays, which specifically showed how illusory the numbers were, I'm going to go back through the articles to see what date it was on and put it in a comment. It was very interesting and confirmed what I thought was going on with him. At least three sacks came as an unblocked free runner, or the QB ran right into him.
They did “play their asses off” Unfortunately asses are not a relevant metric that measures likelihood of winning. How about discipline, quality game planning, the ability to make scheme changes within a game.
One of two things will happen, either the coaches will get let go before the end of the season or AR will get hurt. Because I can't see a world where this is sustained all year round. Week 5 and two weeks in a row AR gets banged up due to some bad coaching.
Even with 20+ targets/catches, GW and AR still had miscues. And another miscue with MW to end the game on an INT. Lots of miscues due to a lack of discipline or studying? Idk but coaches aren't doing enough to help.
Time of Possession was even but damn was the defense on the field a lot in the beginning with all of the 3 and outs. The only time they had a break early was when AR threw that pick-6 keeping the Offense on. At minimum, get rid of Keith Carter. Would be ok with Carter and Saleh gone. Would be ecstatic if both + Hackett get the hammer. I can't see Woody taking them all out at once but as Quincy says, there's no accountability.
I'd see Saleh going before Hackett because of the AR effect as Bobber alluded to last week. But they both need to go along with the piss poor OL coach.
The prospect of this team trying to fix the offense by firing the head coach would be lunacy, but that's how in debt they are to Aaron Rodgers. It would, actually, entrench the issue. Saleh doesn't have the authority to unilaterally make Hackett do anything, and the communication issues on the offense seem to go pretty deep. That side of the coaching staff feels pretty all over the place. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during game planning during the week.
I personally want Keith and Hackett gone today. I only say Saleh will go first as most often, owner will chop the HC before a coordinator if the HC doesn't outright say he's getting rid of a coordinator. And we all know Saleh. That man will dive on all of the swords because he doesn't like his people getting criticized haha.
I agree, it needs to be done. But if Woody doesn't want to fire Saleh outright, relieve him of HC duties and give him a desk by a window at 1 Jet Drive. But he cannot remain as the figurehead of the team, he is a disgrace.
David, glad you brought up the over reliance on the passing game. It was a big talking point on ESPN’s Sports Center and then Get Up. Former Jet HC’s Rex Ryan and Herm Edwards were screaming for us to “run the football 🤬! Theoretically they’re right. We need a better mix. But it’s obvious they haven’t watched us play. Our run game is so predictable it’s ineffective. Our backs are consistently hit in the backfield. The unimaginative play designs in both the run and passing game are mind boggling. Am I the only one here that noticed how opposing running backs don’t get hit until the are 5 or more yards down field? Our opponents receivers frequently have no defenders within 3 or more yards while almost every comply we get is closely contested?
Maybe it's play design combined with personnel. I definitely notice that the amount of leakage on the offensive line is unacceptable, but I want to be fair to those guys, as well...they're being asked to block more guys than they can account for, usually. It is absurd that there are so many free runners. I can usually do some quick math looking at a defensive front and I sometimes couldn't figure out where the free runners kept coming from. The only thing I can think of is shoddy communication and running against disadvantageous fronts.
Sorry that you guys had to suffer through the game yesterday. I couldn't have watched even if I wanted to because I have a church choir job, but I wouldn't have watched anyway. I refuse to watch until some substantive changes are made, including some firings (Saleh, Carter and Hackett), and the team starts playing like a well-coached, talented football team. If they don't turn it around this season, I'm done with the Jets. 60 years of mostly suffering is enough.
Nothing will change, beause Woody isn't selling the team, and he will just hire yet another incompetent GM and HC, they'll have another 2-3 year rebuild, and then the same thing will happen. Rinse and repeat. I think more of me is hoping that they won't make any changes, than the part that is hoping that they will. I will miss you guys, but am tired of the dumpster fire called the Jets, and am kind of excited about all the time and energy I'll save by not following the Jets. For sure, I won't miss the frustration and aggravation.
Sorry to hear that Craig, but I'm afraid I'm heading in that direction. I've been a fan of both the Jets and the Giants and I'll be paying more attention to the G-Men now. They seem to have some spark.
A sad, sad performance. It does not augur well for the rest of the year. As per usual we won the preseason but will loose the year. There is a very short and brief window to turn this around. Otherwise there will be dramatic post season changes.
Perhaps the NFL will instead of feeling the Jets ‘owe them something’ to regretting their being featured in multiple prime time games!
That yards before contact is telling. I get people are saying Breece has regressed and TEs suck but this is clearly coaching if we bring in "studs" for our OL and we can't block at all??? Ruckert was a top blocking guy and is now the worst in the NFL. BH hadn't had a problem blocking and now practically blocks with his eyes closed. Smith and Simpson letting free rushers through. Right side gets destroyed if left doesn't. This is all clearly coaching when every "good" player drastically regresses in the same year.
My point exactly, a first ballot HOF'er like Tyron Smith doesn't look mediocre like a light switch being turned off. The blocking schemes for both the run and pass are awful.
I just watched some of our TE blocking schemes and boy did it look bad and overly complicated resulting in so many missed blocks. And Badly touched on the OL scenario I mentioned with Smith. It's bad.
I noticed the tight ends, too. The new kid (Bates) had his fair share of massive whiffs. Regularly, I noticed a single guy unaccounted for and he was usually slipping through the blocking scheme blowing things up.
If by noon today (est) if no one is fired even the water boy then this is a 5-6-7 win team. This BS about playing for first place next week. Does anyone really think the Jets are going to beat the Bills next week - come on. Because G Wilson complained they decided to shut the baby up and only throw to him. Rogers is not Brady - he is not going to lead the jets to a winning season. For him to say to the press and the fan base - "get off the Jets - then you will see we are going to on a run" is pure deluisonal. What exactly does Johnson do after the game when they ghe asks "what happned" Just accept it ? No one in that organization cares about winning NO ONE !!! Why all of us even bother to write, read or watch this team is pure stupidity.
Don't mind if you 'start' with Carter so long as you don't 'stop' with him.
I'm also sick of SAUCE thinking holding rules don't apply to his-highness. By my count, het got away with about 5 vs. Denever. I guess word got out among ref's. I really don't care if he doesn't tackle - just don't hold!
If you give a child a hammer and that child starts banging holes in the wall and you continually watch as the child bangs holes in the wall, and you do nothing about it, whose fault is it the child or yours.
Substitue the child with the hammer to Saleh running the team as HC or Hackett attempting to run the offense as OC.
Who is responsible for this disaster, whether he likes it or not, it falls into Woody’s lap.
Unfortunately the way a professional football team is structured, you can fire the coach but you are then forced to hire someone off of his staff . I can never recall a team firing its HC and replacing him with an outsider.
We know some fans will say Ulbrich or Middleton or Oden.
But are they the answer. Maybe only as interim.
The NFL has become an analytical league. Everything is based on numbers. The human element is not a consideration.
But Jet fans, do you need analytics to tell you that a Saleh coached team starts slow almost every game, do you need analytics to tell you that the Jets are an undisciplined team, do you need analytics to tell you that it appears a Saleh coached team never makes halftime adjustments.
Do you need analytics to tell you that Hackett is an absolutely terrible OC, do you need analytics to prove to you that Hackett’s schemes are
juvenile at best. The word innovator has never been used in the same sentence with the name Hackett whether the first name was Paul or Nate.
Football writer, Connor Rodgers asked this question after the game “What do they do all week”. I guess he was referring to Saleh and Hackett. Maybe someone could ask JD or Woody.
It is time for Woody to grab the hammer. Yes, the Jets are 2-3, the season is still salvageable for a shot at the playoffs but does any fan actually believe that.
Woody definitely needs to fire Hackett today. Taking the play calling away from him, will not eliminate the stink of his infantile game plans. Does that wording sound harsh, yes, but not as harsh as 55 cold winters without a Super Bowl appearance.
Carter is definitely a candidate for hammer time. He came here with a very questionable reputation, has that reputation change not really.
The Broncos blitzed the hell out of the Jets offense last week, did you notice any changes in the Jets blitz assignments yesterday, of course not. The NFL is a copy cat league, the Bills and Steelers front lines are already licking their chops to get after Rodgers. Have you seen anything that tells you it won’t happen.
Lastly Saleh is toast, his BS is done carrying him. It doesn’t matter if he loses the fans, it will matter when he loses the locker room.
Based on how this team has played this year, excluding the Pat game would it really matter if the Jets got rid of Saleh, Hackett and Carter this week. Could it get any more embarrassing, very doubtful. They play next Monday night, the extra day would let the new assignment get accustomed to their new responsibilities.
Hire Uhlbrich or Boyer as head coach
Downing as OC
Ben Wilkerson as offensive line coach.
Woody it is hammer time, this would probably be the only moves that you will make as Jet owner that will have a big majority of the fans endorsement.
For the sake of this season, use the hammer🔨 . This will only get worst if you let it fester.
Hiring Saleh with his “ all gas, no brakes” has turned out to be a mistake. He is not the first very good coordinator to fail as a coach.
But keeping him at this point is a recipe for a disaster.
It’s time to call in the receipts like Saleh once said.
Woody, your fan base is tired of watching the child hammer holes into the wall.
Excellent in its entirety.
To be fair to Saleh (as I always am), the defensive side of the ball and the previous offense led by LaFleur made adjustments. The defensive side, actually, is known for making adjustments and settling in. The offense, however, feels like an unfolded lawn chair. It's as if the position groups rarely comunicate.
Excellent Bobber !!!!! You are echoing my sentiments exactly. But as far as replacements, I would name Ron Middleton as HC, the team needs an offensive guy as HC in my opinion, but I wouldn't scoff at Ulbrich or Boyer as HC. I don't know anything about Ben Wilkerson, but he cannot be worse than Carter. Michael Nania at Jets X-Factor wrote an excellent article about the subject in question, and he came up pretty much with the same solution. This needs to end now. And your point about the changes not being earth-shattering in the interim is spot-on. It can't get any worse.
Yes! Boyer for head guy! Am I crazy (clearly, yes), or would a special teams coordinator make the perfect head coach?
The Jets should have offered a king's ransom to Mike Westhoff years ago, he would have been an excellent head coach and possibly gotten the team on the right track. Boyer has done a great job over his time with the Jets, but I would still favor Middleton. But either one would work for me. Ulbrich should stay where he is.
Westhoff was a very prominent, outspoken coach in the war room during the draft for years.
One time he got into a big argument with Herm leading up to the Jets first round pick. Herm wanted Bryan Thomas, Westoff wanted Ed Reed.
Herm won out, Reed went to the Hall of Fame
When Idzik got hired, he banned Westoff from all draft meetings and the war room. Westoff said I retire, that lasted about a year, he became the Saints ST coach. Probably oils have been a good HC, his better days are probably behind him unfortunately
I wasn't referring to looking to hire him, just that someone with his experience and knowledge of the game would be a good move. I remember when that happened about Reed and Thomas. He wasn't a bad player, but not what they expected of him.
It is painful to watch the Jets play, SOJ, Jetsies…whatever. Looking at the talent across this roster and its performance leads to the inevitable conclusion that the team is rotten to the core. That core being the coaching staff. Failure to game plan, slow starts, penalties and an utter lack of ability to adjust intra-game.
Changes are warranted and though firing the HC and OC at the beginning of the season seems rash, until u remove the cancer this patient is dying. Either that or expect a Roger’s retirement post season with a housecleaning and rebuild to follow. A scenario which is all too familiar to members on this site!
Everyone is finding out what I was saying last year - the problem was not Zach Wilson, it was the horrible coaching staff, who used Zach Wilson as a scapegoat.
The media and fans threw the kid under the bus - it was a dialogue Saleh was happy to align with. If only we had a HOF QB everyone said, it would all be different, remember? Do all these games feel eerily familiar? These were clearly what was labeled last year ‘Zach Wilson’ games - slow start, no run game, poor o-line play, QB getting hit, leaning completely on the D that lets you down in the end, massive penalties, and picks while trying to come back from behind. This is what a Robert Saleh team is!!
Aaron Rodgers cannot overcome zero discipline, a dumb coach who doesn’t kick a field goal early in the game to get on the board, and terrible play calling.
I really don’t think Saleh will be missed mid season if you bring in Vrabel. I doubt he would do it though. Belicheat would do it, but fans like me would walk away. Ulbrich is the logical internal candidate. I can live with that.
Doug, you make some good points. This is one of those “ the more things change the more they stay the same” scenarios. I’m not gonna go along with keeping Wilson being a solution as he’s currently buried on Denver”s depth chart which was where he should have been here instead of being thrown to the wolves. A more pertinent point at this time is the way he was handled is part of Bobber’s never ending diatribe concerning our inability or unwillingness to learn from our failures and make adjustments. Never mind the halftime or bye week failures the failures go back to Sam Darnold who was pressed into service when we had Teddy B and Josh McCowen. That failed. So we draft Wilson and do the same to him? Unfortunately Dis functionality is our trade mark!
Exactly! Draft the untested, if talented, young quarterback and expect him to be an outlier when it comes to learning an NFL offense for the first time...I know that almost all NFL teams do that, but it rarely works. I wanted Teddy back then. I wanted Brissett after him. Then again; why bring in an Andy Dalton, Joe Flacco, Jacoby Brissett, Gardner Minshew, etc when you can sell ownership on something possibly working out further down the line? Perhaps Bryce Young works out. What's nice is that you can sell ownership on the prospect that he DOES work out, and you have job security in the mean time. It's systemic.
Was thinking the exact same thing - there is no difference this year then last
What could be more evil than letting a young kid take ALL the heat for an incompetent coaching staff?
Letting 2 kids...and 1 old man take ALL the heat
You're right that they largely used Wilson as a scapegoat (as did the legacy media, a lot of fans, talking heads, etc). I'd quibble with the suggestion that anything involving Nathaniel Hackett is a "Saleh team." I think that the most quintessentially "Saleh team" were those Jets teams when Zach Wilson was hurt and they were starting Flacco or White. He probably wanted an offense that needs, at least, an average veteran quarterback who can simply run the offense and make the easy reads. It isn't flashy, but it, when combined with that defense, makes for a competitive team. Zach Wilson could've fit, but he needed to sit and learn for a bit. Whoever made the call to roll with him and not bring in Flacco until later in the season definitely has blood (figuratively) on their hands. I still like Saleh, but this arranged marriage with Hackett and Rodgers just isn't healthy for anybody.
Danny Boy, agree mostly but not on Saleh! He hasn’t come close to convincing me he’s not way in over his head. I’m not totally solid on the Giants Brian Daboll but as the clock was winding down in Seattle he made several strategic moves that ensured their “W”! I seriously thought any of those moves would have even occurred to Saleh. Players and assistant coaches have come and gone on his watch but he remains the one of the few constant problems. Michael Nania did a great piece on Saleh today on the Jets X-Factor. It’s so on the money….
I, at this point, definitely think that Saleh and the Jets will need to separate at the end of the season. It's way too toxic and he hasn't handled the situation well enough. Brian Daboll, actually, seems to have put together something that could last with the Gints. He has periodically taken the lemons given to him and made lemonade. Saleh, though...the Jets, if they were to not make the playoffs this year, would not be able to make a case for giving Saleh a chance with another coordinator. He had his choice and it didn't work out. He was paired with Hackett because somebody (Woody?) wanted Aaron Rodgers and that has been a strain. He doesn't seem comfortable as the leader, anymore, and I have a hunch that his authority and standing as the leader of this team was diminished when they brought in Hackett and Rodgers. He so clearly doesn't have the authority to crack the whip so he's kind of like a lame duck. It sucks because I like the dude.
Another painful game to watch even though the score doesn't indicate it. Even though Rodgers was bad, he was under constant pressure from the beginning and there were no holes for the runners unless I am not seeing something correctly. I also root for the Giants and watching Daniel Jones with a much cleaner pocket made me jealous. Rodgers must be as well :) At this rate, he will be out for the season injured soon. I actually enjoyed watching the Giants game even though there were a couple of blunders especially when Gray fumbled at the 1 yard line and they took it back 101. How is it that Van Ginkel can get pick 6's against against both the Jets and Giants? As Bobber wrote, Salah, Hackett and Carter need to go. Will Woody do it even though he too is inept? Unfortunately, he is another version of Richie Rich. I wud go with Boyer as the head coach and leave Ulbrich where he is. What are Lazard's hands made out of? I also really don't want to hear AVT say again that they played theirs asses off. We had 4 sacks, however to my eye there wasn't really any pressure. Maybe there is something wrong with my eyes :). 36 yards total rushing. Absolutely pathetic.
It boggles the mind that a first ballot Hall of Famer like Tyron Smith looks mediocre, and John Simpson and Morgan Moses, proven veteran o-linemen, look lost out there. To me it's the blocking schemes of Carter combined with the ludicrous offensive plans of The Hacker. And at this rate, AR won't last too much longer. Getting hit 10+ times in two straight games has hurt him, you can see it on the field by the way he moves. In the two last games he has a sore knee and a low ankle sprain after all the pounding. When a QB has lower body issues, the throws are harder to make and are less effective. We saw this last week and yesterday, as AR was pretty much hobbling. He basically is a statue out there. That was one of the reasons I was bitterly against the whole AR debacle.
And your comment about pressures is spot on. I know Old McDonald has 6 sacks, but that figure is illusory, as he is getting slammed on run plays and has gotten lucky on 3 or 4 of those sacks. JD's worst error was trading JMF for a can of soda and a bag of chips. They REALLY need him now. And Leonard Taylor needs to get more snaps, he can be very disruptive at DT. The Jets have to pray that Fotu can fill the bill at DT as a run-stuffer, as his career record against the run is mediocre at best.
You might be onto something regarding McDonald. He sometimes looks like he's going all or nothing for pressures and winds up getting washed or losing pocket integrity. He spends a lot of time on the ground.
I don't know if you are subscribed to Jets X-Factor, but Rivka Boord or Joe Blewett did a thorough examination of all of McDonald's sacks and other plays, which specifically showed how illusory the numbers were, I'm going to go back through the articles to see what date it was on and put it in a comment. It was very interesting and confirmed what I thought was going on with him. At least three sacks came as an unblocked free runner, or the QB ran right into him.
They did “play their asses off” Unfortunately asses are not a relevant metric that measures likelihood of winning. How about discipline, quality game planning, the ability to make scheme changes within a game.
One of two things will happen, either the coaches will get let go before the end of the season or AR will get hurt. Because I can't see a world where this is sustained all year round. Week 5 and two weeks in a row AR gets banged up due to some bad coaching.
Even with 20+ targets/catches, GW and AR still had miscues. And another miscue with MW to end the game on an INT. Lots of miscues due to a lack of discipline or studying? Idk but coaches aren't doing enough to help.
Time of Possession was even but damn was the defense on the field a lot in the beginning with all of the 3 and outs. The only time they had a break early was when AR threw that pick-6 keeping the Offense on. At minimum, get rid of Keith Carter. Would be ok with Carter and Saleh gone. Would be ecstatic if both + Hackett get the hammer. I can't see Woody taking them all out at once but as Quincy says, there's no accountability.
I'd see Saleh going before Hackett because of the AR effect as Bobber alluded to last week. But they both need to go along with the piss poor OL coach.
The prospect of this team trying to fix the offense by firing the head coach would be lunacy, but that's how in debt they are to Aaron Rodgers. It would, actually, entrench the issue. Saleh doesn't have the authority to unilaterally make Hackett do anything, and the communication issues on the offense seem to go pretty deep. That side of the coaching staff feels pretty all over the place. I'd love to be a fly on the wall during game planning during the week.
I agree with everything you say.
I personally want Keith and Hackett gone today. I only say Saleh will go first as most often, owner will chop the HC before a coordinator if the HC doesn't outright say he's getting rid of a coordinator. And we all know Saleh. That man will dive on all of the swords because he doesn't like his people getting criticized haha.
He definitely has protected his players and coaches from the media pretty frequently. He's a lame duck and has been since the Rodgers trade.
I agree, it needs to be done. But if Woody doesn't want to fire Saleh outright, relieve him of HC duties and give him a desk by a window at 1 Jet Drive. But he cannot remain as the figurehead of the team, he is a disgrace.
Please….may their departure be imminent!
David, glad you brought up the over reliance on the passing game. It was a big talking point on ESPN’s Sports Center and then Get Up. Former Jet HC’s Rex Ryan and Herm Edwards were screaming for us to “run the football 🤬! Theoretically they’re right. We need a better mix. But it’s obvious they haven’t watched us play. Our run game is so predictable it’s ineffective. Our backs are consistently hit in the backfield. The unimaginative play designs in both the run and passing game are mind boggling. Am I the only one here that noticed how opposing running backs don’t get hit until the are 5 or more yards down field? Our opponents receivers frequently have no defenders within 3 or more yards while almost every comply we get is closely contested?
The unimaginative play design from a coach and coaching staff bereft of imagination!
There's only one common denominator, offensive line coach Keith Carter.
Maybe it's play design combined with personnel. I definitely notice that the amount of leakage on the offensive line is unacceptable, but I want to be fair to those guys, as well...they're being asked to block more guys than they can account for, usually. It is absurd that there are so many free runners. I can usually do some quick math looking at a defensive front and I sometimes couldn't figure out where the free runners kept coming from. The only thing I can think of is shoddy communication and running against disadvantageous fronts.
Sorry that you guys had to suffer through the game yesterday. I couldn't have watched even if I wanted to because I have a church choir job, but I wouldn't have watched anyway. I refuse to watch until some substantive changes are made, including some firings (Saleh, Carter and Hackett), and the team starts playing like a well-coached, talented football team. If they don't turn it around this season, I'm done with the Jets. 60 years of mostly suffering is enough.
Nothing will change, beause Woody isn't selling the team, and he will just hire yet another incompetent GM and HC, they'll have another 2-3 year rebuild, and then the same thing will happen. Rinse and repeat. I think more of me is hoping that they won't make any changes, than the part that is hoping that they will. I will miss you guys, but am tired of the dumpster fire called the Jets, and am kind of excited about all the time and energy I'll save by not following the Jets. For sure, I won't miss the frustration and aggravation.
Sorry to hear that Craig, but I'm afraid I'm heading in that direction. I've been a fan of both the Jets and the Giants and I'll be paying more attention to the G-Men now. They seem to have some spark.
A sad, sad performance. It does not augur well for the rest of the year. As per usual we won the preseason but will loose the year. There is a very short and brief window to turn this around. Otherwise there will be dramatic post season changes.
Perhaps the NFL will instead of feeling the Jets ‘owe them something’ to regretting their being featured in multiple prime time games!
The Jets rankings in rushing, per TruMedia:
EPA per rush (-0.17): 29th
Yards per rush (3.6): 30th
Percentage of rushes for zero/negative yards (23%): 27th
Yards before contact per rush (0.44): 32nd
They also have only had a stacked box 14.2% of the time, which is 28th.
Why stack the box when a standard formation will suffice!
That yards before contact is telling. I get people are saying Breece has regressed and TEs suck but this is clearly coaching if we bring in "studs" for our OL and we can't block at all??? Ruckert was a top blocking guy and is now the worst in the NFL. BH hadn't had a problem blocking and now practically blocks with his eyes closed. Smith and Simpson letting free rushers through. Right side gets destroyed if left doesn't. This is all clearly coaching when every "good" player drastically regresses in the same year.
My point exactly, a first ballot HOF'er like Tyron Smith doesn't look mediocre like a light switch being turned off. The blocking schemes for both the run and pass are awful.
I just watched some of our TE blocking schemes and boy did it look bad and overly complicated resulting in so many missed blocks. And Badly touched on the OL scenario I mentioned with Smith. It's bad.
I noticed the tight ends, too. The new kid (Bates) had his fair share of massive whiffs. Regularly, I noticed a single guy unaccounted for and he was usually slipping through the blocking scheme blowing things up.
If by noon today (est) if no one is fired even the water boy then this is a 5-6-7 win team. This BS about playing for first place next week. Does anyone really think the Jets are going to beat the Bills next week - come on. Because G Wilson complained they decided to shut the baby up and only throw to him. Rogers is not Brady - he is not going to lead the jets to a winning season. For him to say to the press and the fan base - "get off the Jets - then you will see we are going to on a run" is pure deluisonal. What exactly does Johnson do after the game when they ghe asks "what happned" Just accept it ? No one in that organization cares about winning NO ONE !!! Why all of us even bother to write, read or watch this team is pure stupidity.
I guess we are all deep down masochists :)
You maybe underestimating our collective degree of masochism! Is it too much to much to expect some competent football and winning!
*checks clock and sweats*. Not looking good Steve...
Don't mind if you 'start' with Carter so long as you don't 'stop' with him.
I'm also sick of SAUCE thinking holding rules don't apply to his-highness. By my count, het got away with about 5 vs. Denever. I guess word got out among ref's. I really don't care if he doesn't tackle - just don't hold!