The best word to summarize this game was ABYSMAL. I am quite fortunate that living overseas, I am able to watch the condensed version, thereby limiting my time of torturous exposure to 40 minutes rather than 3 hours plus. Excepting the first half defense ( though there were no sacks or real pressures), this was a total abomination. Unfortunately, while many of the Jets games are stressful rather than enjoyable), I don't think I have felt this way after a game in a long long time. Maybe that is because I was finally expecting better. I will let u guys go into all the hideous details.
I wrote this long post on my phone in this comment section and went to a browser to look up a name and came back to it being all gone. :) it had so much detail and I didn't copy it. kinda the icing on the cake. So I'll scrap those thoughts and just say:
Fire Tony Dews, Keith Carter, Nathaniel Hackett, and Robert Saleh if we go 0-2 against Vikings and Bills. Those dominoes should fall in that order. Promote Ulbrich and Middleton. Finish the season with some real effort
For those that always wanted to blame Zach last year, you just saw an exact replica of one of his games. Difference is Zach would have taken all the heat from this game, and Saleh would have been happy to give it to him. What is the same? The coaching staff, lack of preparation, lack of discipline, inability to adjust to their game plan - how the hell did they keep putting Breece out there when it was super obvious the Denver game plan was to key on him???
There is also that Saleh mentality that the D will win these games, and they actually sat on a 3 point lead. Aaron and Saleh are not in sync and it could get ugly imo. Aaron saw how Saleh left Zach out to dry, and is not going to let that happen to him. Saleh needs to explain to all of us how Allen never got a crack at 1st and goal from the one!
Happy to beat bobber this morning - 800 pages takes time.
My thoughts are that nobody on this staff is comfortable coaching offense. Rodgers is the QB, leader and offensive coordinator.
I didn't put this in, but after the game it seemed as though Saleh suggested that maybe the cadence of Rodgers may have been a problem, and then when asked Rodgers said something like 'Yeah maybe that's it, or maybe we need to have some accountability', it was something like that anyway.
I saw that. Shows deeper issues between them. Simpson and Breece were jumpy all day. All the more reason that Breece should have sat. No accountability is the hallmark of the Saleh regime.
Breece has looked bad all season. On the other Jets' fan site where I post, quite a few posters there think Breece has lost confidence and is too busy looking over his shoulder at Allen. I have no idea if that's right or not, but he's clearly not the same player this year as in the last two.
Douglas, no doubt Breece was not right. But I don’t think it was lack of ability or interest on his part. I think it’s about preparation which is not necessarily on him. Listening to his post game comments it’s clear he cares but it’s also clear he was unsure about his assignments based on the formations they were in on several occasions. He felt he wasn’t in the best position to protect AR with the looks Denver was in several times. Bottom line is there was confusion and that goes to coaching once again.
You hit the nail on the head. The offense seemed out of sorts and nobody was on the same page. It, honestly, gives credence to the reports about the offense last season (that the communication within the offensive staff was terrible and it came from Hackett being a poor leader/communicator).
I was gonna point that out but you beat me to it. Just rewatched the post game presser and I think looking at Aaron’s reaction to Saleh suggesting dialing the snap cadence back clearly pissed of Rodgers. He had the same look of disdain as it appeared last week on that no hug thing so maybe that questionable issue from last week may have something to do to it after all.
This remark alone should get Saleh fired. He must really mesmerize Woody with statements like this. All Saleh double talk.
Saleh yesterday on Rodgers' cadence as perhaps the reason for the false starts: "We’ve got to figure it out, whether or not we’re good enough or ready to handle all the cadence. Cadence had not been an issue all camp. Felt like our operation had been operating pretty good, obviously, today it took a major step back."
Saleh today on whether they need to alter the cadence: "No. No. Yesterday I was mentioning operation. We're always going to push the envelope with cadence. Always. But with regards to operation, getting in and out of the huddle, getting to the line of scrimmage, the communication that's being had, those are all things that we can continue to look at and clean up. But from a cadence standpoint, that's part of what makes us who we are and we're going to continue to always push the envelope on that."
It felt like Saleh getting a little bit too honest. He, probably, should've been a little bit more tight lipped about what he thought the issues were, but it was pretty obvious that the issues were rooted in communication on the offensive side of the ball. Guys being jump, unsure, and out of sync tells me that the players on that side of the ball weren't completely comfortable with the gameplan and that it, perhaps, hadn't been communicated well.
When I think I have an idea what David will post, I’ll write my comments the night before. When it’s about one subject say like the draft or cutdown day, it becomes relatively easy to put a few ideas together, maybe add a joke or two and voila my long winded comment. This game yesterday was such a disaster, I actually had no clue where to start. Too show what a complete disaster it was neither David in his column or myself in my comments, mentioned the Great Allen Lazard, three penalties costing the Jets gained yardage and adding on penalty yardage.
You are right about one thing, it would probably take 800 pages to cover this disaster
There was so much stink from that game I think we'd have had to go on forever to cover them all. I had forgotten about Lazards penalties, he was slow off the snap just like everyone else. At least he made a couple of nice grabs, but not enough to make up the awfulness of everything.
That was insane, right?! Lazard seemed to spin the ball and do the Shooter McGavin "finger guns" at the ball. Is that, truly, unsportsmanlike? I'm skeptical.
You've got that right. I'm generally of that mind, as well. It was kind of bone headed on Lazard's part. I didn't think it was necessarily unsportsmanlike and it felt much sillier than some of the gun-related stuff you see, but Lazard is a veteran and should probably just pull a Breece (hand the ball back to the ref, and get back to the huddle).
I'm not sure I'd agree that they, necessarily "sat" on the lead. The offense was out of sync all day long and I'm, honestly, not sure what was going on with the offensive line. I'm usually one to defend the head coach because, largely, this stuff isn't because of something that the head coach, explicitly, is doing. That isn't going to change, today. I'm not sure why the running game flat out didn't work. I'm not sure why Breece Hall looked out of sorts. I'm not sure why Tyron Smith looked so off. I think Saleh's answer about the cadence is refreshingly honest. It's very likely that Aaron Rodgers' unusual cadence probably resulted in some of the timing struggles along the offensive line. I agree that certain players could be held accountable, but I suppose I'm left wondering what a layman thinks "accountability" looks like, especially in professional football. Not only does the head coach not police poor play or poor preparation on an individual player level, he isn't doing it on a specific side of the ball, either. We already knew that the offensive side of the ball was run outside of the usual structure of things. We already knew that they were run, ostensibly, by a combination of Rodgers and Hackett, without a ton of input from Saleh. That structure was set up above the head coach's head, unfortunately. Perhaps it's the kind of setup is a kind of catch 22 price for getting Rodgers into the building. In order to get Rodgers to come, they had to hire his buddy, and in order to hire his buddy, they had to provide a certain organizational structure.
Danny Boy, everything you’re saying is for the most part accurate and true. But it’s not working. Certainly not yesterday. So the question now becomes; is it fixable? Can we get our guys on the same page. Is it too complicated for our guys. Listening to Breece Hall in the post game he was often uncomfortable in pass pro. He felt he wasn’t positioned properly to pick up blitz’s on several occasions. The uncertainty prompted him to flinch on two occasions that resulted in penalties. That’s a problem. AR’s was visibly upset with quite a few route choices by GW and others. Watching this game felt like watching an early preseason game where you’re trying to work out the kinks. ( oh wait, our starters don’t play preseason games) Hmmmm, maybe that needs to be reevaluated? Tyrone Smith was totally out of synch all game. Maybe he needs more work. These 2 team practices are just not the same as game action. There is no crowd. Therefore no noise. No excitement that generates the adrenaline that happens in a game. There were no game officials calling penalties and no clock to worry about. Not sure this is the best way to prepare for a season.
You're on it, as usual. The offense feels like a overloaded buffet plate of Leaning Tower of Pisa proportions. Rodgers and Hackett have this offense that, largely, makes sense. Everything is correct. The x's and o's all check out. The probelm seems to be that they've overloaded a number of their players, most notably some starter-caliber players who aren't exactly dummies. Breece Hall has regularly graded out as an amazing tail back. Tyron Smith and John Simpson have excelled with good, playoff-caliber, offenses. Tyron is one of the best five tackles of the last decade. Even these guys are expressing that what Rodgers and (possibly to a lesser degree) Hackett want to do. Rodgers' mind for football operates at a drastically different speed than most players, so it takes an offensive staff that isn't afraid to hit the brakes and adjust the offense to fit the football IQ of the rest of the team. They aren't doing it right now. Hopefully, they tear out chunks of the offense and simplify things moving forward. They have as much talent as I've seen on a Jets team in well over a decade.
Also....that thing about Breece being confused in pass pro; it was on full display on the final offensive snap of the game. They Broncos sent a blitz that, essentially, was bringing heat in every gap. I think there were, actually, numbers enough for the offensive line to handle the pressure up the middle, while the Broncos were bringing the cheat code (2 in one gap) off of the edge). Tyron Smith and John Simpson actually handled it pretty well (Smith expanding to cover the 5 gap and Simpson expanding to cover the 3). Unfortunately, Breece filled 1 gap where there was no pressure, and the fella outside of Tyron and Simpson (who each picked up their men) ran free. So...the protection wasn't communicated to everybody. Either Smith and Simpson need to be expanding to the EMOL (which is tough because you'd be asking each guy to kick out a full two gaps) so Breece can slot into that inside gap, or Breece needs to adjust to pick up the dude off the edge. I wonder who is calling the protections for the offense.
David, if you can find it Matt Ryan talking to former Steelers coach on the post game show really hit it out of the park discussing the poor communication on the route choices between AR and GW. The video clearly shows they were not on the same page. It’s gonna be tough to win a lot of football games if this keeps up.
Breece almost got Aaron killed on one play. Aaron told his ass the DB was coming and he whiffed and didn't pick up the blitz. He had his head so far up his ass to protect him from yesterdays elements. He needs to step it up big time!
S !!!!! O !!!!!! J !!!!!! I wasn't surprised in the least at that debacle yesterday. The hallmark of a Saleh team has become a lack of discipline, a lack of accountability, a lack of proper preparation and a lack of intelligence on the part of the supposed head coach. Plain and simple, he's an empty suit that spouts gibberish and half-truths at every presser and it's pathetic to watch. He's a waste of space and Woody did the team a disservice by not cleaning house after last year's monstrosity. And it has absolutely nothing to do with AR getting hurt on the fourth play of the season. With the shambles of the o-line, he would have gotten hurt at some point during the season. He also knows zip, nada, nothing about offense, and when you add in that mope The Hacker, it's even worse.
The comments about the weather, AR's cadence and any other excuse about the game ring very hollow, because it's the same thing at every presser. It comes down to three things, accountability, discipline and preparedness. Everyone knows the 6 P's. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. There are three very important games coming up in the next 3 weeks, and if the issues are not even partially solved, the team could be looking at 2-5 and the season very much in danger. They say a team takes on the identity of its coach, and Saleh's identity is an abject failure. You can bring in all the players you want, but if the coach gives off a negative vibe, it's going to filter down to every part of the team. It's way past time to cut him loose, along with Keith Carter and The Hacker. I don't know enough about Tony Dews to make any kind of determination. Something has to be done, and done now ! Waiting until after Minnesota or Buffalo is too late. I've never been a coach, but I've played under coaches, both good and bad, so I know how that can affect a team's performance. Right now, the HC of the NYC is a disaster and needs to go. Make Ron Middleton the interim HC.
A little history lesson for readers of the Jet way.
I have lived all my life and still do about 5 miles from the Meadowlands.
I have mentioned my age a few times, 75, birthday is right around the corner.
When I was a kid, the whole area around the stadium was once either pig farms, swamps or garbage dumps, mostly from NYC. But all three were there at the same time.
If you have ever drove down the NJ Turnpike South past the stadium and wondered what the unbelievable huge mountains of dirt are that is covered upped garbage.
Back then whenever my father drove his 4 door two toned Ford Fairlane on route 3, the stench especially on hot muggy days was unbearable.
No one had car air conditioning back then. We would hand crank the windows up as fast as possible when driving past that area
Every one called it Secaucus which is a town right there but it included other towns.
The pig farms were owned by Henry “ Piggy ”Krajewski, he actually would run for president every 4 years as a third party nominee for many years Google him, he’s there
My point about the history lesson
Is this. You can drain swamps, cover garbage up with dirt and build stadiums, motels, hotels, restaurants and parking lots over pig farms but the stench is still there as we witnessed yesterday, history does repeat it self.
Yesterday, every shot of Garrett on the field also showed an orange #2 jersey attached to him like white on rice.
Nix had 60 yards passing, all caught by one player Sutton. Not one other Bronco had any positive receiving yardage .
As this game was being played, why wasn’t Sauce Sutton’s white on rice.
Excuse me but Saleh’s fantastic defensive schemes do not call for that kind of coverage.
Repeating myself when Sutton caught that pass, the nearest Jet Jersey was sitting in the second row of the stands.
About 5-7 yards in front of him were Reed and a safety looking at each other, body language saying he was your guy. A good DC would have had Sutton be Sauce’s guy.
Another example of the over hyped Saleh defense who he never criticizes.
As Bobber said (even though i followed the team for close to 60 years) - I am NOT a Jets fan. I know their history and i honestly did not see that pile of steaming crap coming. Glad Bobber has the pulse of FAKE Jets Fans. Lets explain why i am NOT a Jets fan, especially to Bobber, why i was surprised:
1) Why would i think a HOF QB would not get the team into the EZ just once aaginst a crap team ?
2) Why would i think a HOF QB would slide 2 yards short of the first down marker when he has played for 100 years ? I coud see the stick from my seat for crying out loud !
3) Why would i think that a defense that calls itself 'elite/top 5" can't make a stop when they absolulty have to (Contrary to what David writes) They are average at best. Allow a TD to a wide open guy in the EZ.
4) Why would i think that the head coach is going to play "buddy system" sending Breece Hall into the line for no gain over and over and over again ?
5) Why would I think that Zack Wilson can beat Denver but Aaron Rogers cant ?
6) Why would i think that AVT would say "we played our asses off" when they allowed 5 sacks and 15 pressures. Was the guy in the right game or playing someplace else ?
7) Why would i think a HOF QB would continue to throw balls into the dirt like Zack Wilson used to do ?
8) Why would i think with 10 days off The Jets had no game plan ?
9) Why would i think The Jets would commit 13 penalties ?
10) Why would i think that Breece Hall & Garret Wilson look like crap and did nothing to help the team win a game? That is becuase they are not a good as they keep telling everyone they are but I did not see that coming at all cause i am NOT a real Jets fan.
11) Why would i think that at home - even in the rain - against a terrble team with a rookie QB would The Jets would not win a game even by a point ?
12) What REAL Jets fan thinks like all of this ?
13) Why would i think this team was better then past years and would be playing for a playoff spot Which is certainly out of the question !!
14) Why would i think in a week to week league The Jets will beat the Vikings next week cause that is what Saleh coached teams do (then not show up at home the following week against the Bills)
15 Now i am GLAD i clarfied for us NON Jets fans who have followed the team for years exactly why we are NOT Jets fans - sheesh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me - really ? When do the NY Rangers start play ? I need to check if I'm still a fan of them before the season starts.
BS!!! "Diehards who are pessimists will admit that this game scared them." "There I fixed it for you. You're a pessimist, not a realist, so get the hell outta here with that BS!
Agree i am NOT a real Jets Fan - how silly to post that in a long time Jets Group. People who write things like that don't really know the Jets at all !!!!!!!!
If any Jet fan says they are surprised by yesterday’s final score, I only have one thing to say to them and that is “ YOU ARE NOT A TRUE JET FAN. YOU KNOW NOTHING OF JET HISTORY.
There is not one true Jet fan who didn’t see this one coming.
Trying not to be emotional is very hard to do.
The Jets on their very first play attempted to pass, Rodgers sacked. That was it, the vaunted Hackett vanilla prevent offense was put into motion for the rest of the game. Run the ball on first and second and attempt to pass on third down. Hackett’s recipe for failure.
Hackett needs to be fired immediately, First down on the Broncos one and Braelon Allen is on the bench getting splinters in his ass.
Allen for the game,34 yds on 8 carries 4.2 yds a carry.
Hall 4 yds on 10 carries that’s .04 a carry, exactly what he averaged on his two carries there.
That play sequence there totally justified what Payton said about Hackett’s coaching ability.
After the pass interference call at the end of the fourth quarter, you couldn’t have called a worse play sequence. Empty backfield, why, everything was in the Jets favor. No attemps to run, Just passes that were so off of the mark, it appeared as if Zach was playing quarterback again for the Jets. The weather was horrible, the ball was wet, a couple of yards might have made a difference.
Didn’t this fantastic coaching staff know that Denver blitzes on 43% of their plays. Going empty backfield just telegraphed the Jets intentions.
This team should be 1-3, since the Titan quarterback did his best to give that game away.
Where were the play action, screens, draw plays.
They really surprised the Broncos having Solomon Thomas running a route on 3rd and goal
We were told countless times before the season, that Rodgers cadence causes teams trouble. Saleh and Hackett said it a few times. They were 100% right. Except it the over rated Jet offensive line moving, 5 times yesterday. I think there was one Denver offside, that’s coaching which this team sorely lacks.
A typical Saleh coached game, slow starting, totally undisciplined, 15 penalties of which 13 were accepted, Then came his patented response about penalties, after Sunday’s game as it was repeated mostly every week last year, as the same problems persisted week after week: “We gotta figure it out.”
If you haven’t figured it out yet, then you and your HC record of 22-36 need to be fired.
As far as this so-called great defense, that wording is totally in the minds of the sports writers, fans and Jet coaches.
Great defenses don’t let an opposing teams best wide receiver alone in the end zone. The closest Jet Jersey to Sutton was sitting in the second row.
Jets go up 9-7, the great defense lets them come down the field to score the winning fg.
Please don’t tell me they only gave 10 points because the Torch and Pitchfork Brigade’s Analytic algorithm says the only important number is wins, every other mindless statistic is bulls**t.
Unfortunately baseball, hockey and basketball are built to bring outsiders to replace managers and HC during the season.
Cant be done in football
But if it could happen Woody should be talking to Vrabel at this moment.
In the words of that great HC Jim Mora, “ Playoffs, Playoffs, don’t talk to me about playoffs”
At least not as long as Saleh and Hackett are here. This team has zero chance of making the playoffs.
By the way, if they would have showed up yesterday, they would be in first place right now in the division.
I’m 76 years old, been a Jet fan since 1963, beat cancer and have always been confident they would prevail, even when common sense said “ no chance”.
After yesterday’s catastrophe, I can honestly say I’m very lucky that I was able to watch and savor Super Bowl 3, because I will never see another Jet appearance in a Super Bowl in my lifetime.
Next week, Sam Darnold, the NFL leader in td passes will probably have 3-4 more over this overrated defense.
Remember him, the guy both Saleh and JD didn’t want.
And please, I know every Jet Darnold story out there, I don’t need to be reminded. He is another victim of a terrible, over rated Jet coaching staff.
So I guess that according to you I'm not a true Jet fan and know nothing of Jet history because I didn't see that shit show yesterday coming? I guess I've slept through the last 60 years.
Thanks! I thought the team had learned and was moving past that. There's no way this team should have lost yesterday and have played that poorly. Saleh and Hackett must go NOW! They are totally to blame! Daniel save your breath and energy, because nothing you say will change my mind. Saleh and Hackett are the chief culprits, but Carter, Dews, and maybe Jefferson deserve a share in the blame.
What sorts of things could Saleh, personally, have done differently? Sometimes I wonder what fans think head coaches do and what their roles are. Of course, they instill a certain amount of discipline in a team, but the Jets' problems on Sunday (and on previous Sundays) are rarely players simply being undisciplined. I think there is a certain amount to be about accountability, but there is only so much a head coach like Saleh can do in this scenario. He's been paired with a quarterback and offensive coordinator, and the staff underneath that coordinator (Hackett) are largely untouchable. Further still, I don't see the issue as being the entire offensive staff being incompetent. The communication structure seems to be completely off and the offense looks like it's overinstalled. The head coach is a general manager, in this sense. There are certain bits of coaching that he's doing, but he's also handling personalities and leading. His main focus, for the last year and a half, has probably been figuring out ways to nudge changes on the offensive side without explicitly telling Hackett to make changes (because it's not really clear he has the authority to straight up do so). I agree that the staff (mostly the offensive side) has been a mess, but it's largely one that came as a result of half baked plans for internal infrastructure.
What things would you like to see Robert Saleh personally do? I'm genuinely curious.
I'm not sure his hands are tied to the extent that you think they are. If they are, then it's little wonder things are so screwed up. If so, then JD needs to have a meeting with Woody first and lay out the changes that have to be made, and if those changes will affect Rodgers, then have a meeting with Rodgers to let him know what is coming, and then call a come to Jesus meeting and read the riot act to the CS and make changes if needed. Rodgers be damned if he's the problem, and Hackett should be told in no uncertain terms to pull his head out of his ass and quit being so conservative. I don't believe that Rodgers is the problem however. I believe that Hackett's conservatism isn't solely his fault. I think a large part of it may be directly a result of Saleh's coaching style and orders. We've seen it since day one. Saleh is conservative, coaches not to lose, and tries to win with D. That shit doesn't work. If you're to be conseravtive and predictable in your offense, then your team damn well better be able to out-execute, out-run, and/or out-muscle opposing teams.
There's clearly a reason why Wilson and Breece look worse with Rodgers at QB than they did with Wilson and the others. Whatever that reason is, needs to be figured out an resolved. If the scheme is too complex, then as you suggested, scrap the complexity and simplify things. I HATE the WCO. It supposedly takes 3 years to learn and more to master it. With the way teams personnel turns over, it's no longer practical to run that offense unless one has really smart players and a CS who is adept at teaching players their responsibilities. If Rodgers and Hackett are trying to do things on offense that Breece, Wilson and the OL are incapable of doing, then they need to be told to stop it. That isn't going to help anything. It doesn't matter what Rodgers is able to do if the rest of the offense can't do it along with him.
If the effort is lacking to work and learn the game plan, then Saleh needs to get in players faces and chew their asses out. A successful HC has to be part counselor/psychiatrist and figure out what his players need, not just throw platitudes at them. He needs to figure out what is wrong with Breece and Wilson and get them untracked. Maybe benching Breece will piss him off so much, that the next time he gets on the field he'll take his anger out on the opposing D. If he's pouting because of Allen, Saleh needs to tell him to grow up and get over it. Competition is part of football. I think part of Wilson's problem is his playing in the slot so much. Why are they treating him like a lesser WR? He supposedly is the Jets #1 WR. If he is, then he needs to be on the outside. Rodgers and Wilson need to be on the same page. That should have happened in TC and preseason. Saleh should have gotten involved and found out why they weren't on the same page and taken steps to remedy the situation. If Rodgers expectations are not realistic for Wilson's skill set or mental approach, then Rodgers needs to change. I find it hard to believe that Wilson isn't working hard or is just inflexible. Earlier in the season he was quoted as saying that he liked how he and Rodgers were talking back and forth and explaining what each likes and expects. There is a disconnect there, and it's Saleh's responsibility as the HC to fix it yesterday.
I trust Rodgers one heck of a lot more than I do Saleh. Rodgers commenting on accountability is telling imo, as was his shove of Saleh in last week's game. Damien Woody sure knows football and he lays it all at Saleh's feet. Saleh is the HC. The buck stops there and he will be held responsible if it all turns to shit. Saleh obviously runs a loose and undisciplined practice. He should be able to tell in practice if players are confused, uncertain of their assignments and make changes BEFORE the game, not move ahead and hope for the best.
There is absolutely no excuse for the Jets always losing (except for 1 time) after a BYE week or mini-bye. That has to be on the HC and his lack of preparation, of discipline. He is soft and makes too many excuses. Coming off their big win vs the Pats, a weaker opponent coming to play them at home, and extra days of rest, the Jets should have come out ready to blow Denver out, the weather be damned. Saleh set the tone with his saying that he knew it was going to be tough because of the weather. His expectations and standards are too low. He's more worried about being liked and being a friend to the players than he is winning It's Rex Part Deux.
It's hard to say in more detail what he could/should have done differently because I'm not there at practices and coach meetings. I can only go on his comments in his press conferences and how the team performs. Those things tell me that he is soft, expectations/standards too low, and he's not tough-minded and not enough of a disciplinarian. With disciplinarian HCs one doesn't see the constant sloppy play, penalties and slow starts. Perhaps he needs to give the team fewer days off, work them harder in practice after layoffs when they get back or try something different. Read some players the riot act, or do something to get their attention.
If Hackett still isn't communicating and working with his offensive staff, then Rodgers should get in Hackett's face and Saleh should be able to as well. Rodgers knows that lack of communication and everyone being on the same page will undermine the offense and make him look bad. If he's allowing himself and team to suffer because of Hackett's stupidity, then shame on him. Saleh should be able to discipline players for repeated penalties if their minds are elsewhere and not focused. The CBA may not allow it, but teams ought to be able to fine players or dock their pay for repeated poor play. If the inmates are running the asylum and there's nothing a HC can do, they might as well just shut down the NFL today. I don't think that's the case. It's funny that other teams don't have these issues, at least to the extent that the Jets do. You don't see those problems repeatedly with Andy Reid's, Sean Payton's, Shanahan's, Mike Tomlin's, or the Harbaughs' teams.
I largely agree with the underlying problems. Where we probably disagree, at a fundemental level, is how one goes about fixing the problems. Ideas about disciplinarian coaches versus friendly players' coaches, I think, can be largely overblown, especially when you're dealing with a team of professionals. The tactics that you'd mentioned are one thing with a group of kids (totally understand that these dudes in their mid-twenties are essentially kids to most of us; but I mean more, not in college and they're professionals with agency of their own), but an entirely different matter with a group of adults. I do think that there is something to be desired when it comes to the team discipline and how they handle dumb mistakes in games, but those dumb mistakes aren't usually a case of guys needing to be yelled out or disciplined. There is, likely, a breakdown in communication of the expectations. I think Saleh can do better, but he has largely been progressing and becoming a better coach. It could, of course, be one of those instances where he'll get fired after the year, move on to become a coordinator and associated head coach somewhere, and then actually have a little success in his second go at the job.
I do, however, think that the teams that you mentioned aren't necessarily more disciplinarian or more accountable. Each of those fellas (except for Tomlin...he's a unicorn) is on their second or third head job, and they've had a couple of cracks at determining the right style. Andy Reid's teams, while being largely amazing for the last decade, have been notoriously prone to bone-headed plays and fiery personalities (Kelce, Toney, etc). It's also notable that he was dropped into a strong situation with regard to front office and ownership. Harbaugh has had his share of competitive teams that largely relied on the same defense-first mentality that Saleh's teams have attempted to win with. Harbaugh, also, was inserted into a entrenched front office structure. Shanahan is in a similar situation. I think there is a lot of nature versus nurture to this, and I usually am on the side of nurture. It's the same way with quarterbacks. A talented and able head coach isn't going to succeed if he is on a different page than ownership and the front office. I don't think Saleh is necessarily on a different page (or hasn't always been), but the Rodgers thing has always seemed like something that he is in the passenger seat for.
I'm still not sure who within the Jets organization was pushing so hard for Wilson. Was it Douglas? Was it a directive from ownership to draft a quarterback? I kind of doubt that Saleh was the brains behind drafting the untested and largely green quarterback who his hand picked offensive coordinator didn't want.
This next part is a legitimate question, and I'll probably ask it in a more prominent area of these comments: What kinds of things do ya'll think a head coach does to not start slow and not play undisciplined? I have my own idea of some of that stuff, and it largely isn't a head coach issue, especially considering the main culprits.
This is the first I've seen it stated that MLF didn't want Zach Wilson. In fact, I have read the exact opposite numerous times that MLF didn't want Wilson. If you're correct, then either Wilson should never have been drafted, or MLF told to suck it up
and do his job if the GM, scouts, and HC all thought Zach was the right move. Having a situation where the OC doesn't want the QB is a cluster fuck waiting to happen.
I disagree. Starting slow and undisciplined crap is TOTALLY on the HC. He is the one who sets the standards and expectation for the team's play. The buck stops with the HC. If the problem is with the players, then the HC needs to take steps, perhaps even drastic ones, to get their attention. If the assistant coaches or coordinators aren't doing their job, then it's on the HC to take steps to make them do their job or fire them. If Woody or JD has set up a situation where Saleh has no control, then that's totally wrong, but I don't believe that's the case. Things were the same way before Hackett and Rodgers came to the Jets. The constant is Robert Saleh. You make too many excuses for the coaches.
Also; I'm not really sure on the LaFleur front. I sort of remember him not being in favor of Wilson, but I kind of remember something about him being at the Wilson pro day. Let's say, I think it would've made sense for somebody trying to install all of that in his first try to have a vet quarterback to work with. It's very possible I'm working backward from a desired outcome in my mind with this one. I always got the impression he was like in brother in that he wanted to install HIS offense regardless of the guy behind the center.
I agree that in one sense it would make more sense for a rookie OC to have a veteran QB to work with right out of the gate, but then again in another sense, a veteran QB may not want to have to tutor/mentor a rookie OC who doesn't really know what he's doing.
I also agree that MLF was probably like his brother and many, if not most, NFL coordinators and head coaches that they want to run "their" scheme. I think more often than not that winds up biting them in the ass unless they're very, very good or very, very lucky.
I do think that the coaches could do a better job. I don't think that we necessarily disagree on that point. Where we disagree, however, is in the idea that this coaching staff and these coaches are bad at their jobs, have absolute control over the team, or that the grass is necessarily greener. A lot of teams play the coaching yo-yo game where they yo-yo back and forth between clamoring for a players' coach and clamoring for a disciplinarian. I don't think penalties are simply a reflection of players being undisciplined. There is probably a breakdown in communication somewhere on the staff. It seems to come on the offensive side of the ball given the number of dumb fixable mistakes over there, which tells me that they're doing this better on defense. The dumb mistakes, however, don't smell like the kind of undisciplined mistakes that just require a good yelling at or a punishment. They're communications breakdowns that reflect some growing pains but also some rot on the offensive staff, and I think a lot of the rot comes from Hackett (based on the reports about his communication style and leadership style). There is a certain amount of delegation that a head coach needs to do and I do feel like Saleh has done a mostly good job of this.
I think at the end of the day, fan bases make largely emotional judgements about their favorite teams devoid of hard facts. It's more feelings-based. People don't feel that the Jets play disciplined football. What is "disciplined" football? Playing without penalties? Okay; what kind of penalties? What way does such-and-such fan think that a coach fixes those penalties? Where do they think the breakdown is coming from? Etc. I find that fans (as we are) are operating with a tiny fraction of the information required to make such judgements. Making bold proclamations feels a little bit silly when there's so much unknown.
As far as this CS, they may not be "bad" at their jobs, but they're not good enough unless it's all on Hackett and poor communication. Still, I have to assume that position coaches get whatever new plays will be installed, and rule changes, information that is pertinent to the game on Sunday, and it's up to them to make sure that the players know their assignments, know the rules, and play at something approaching their highest level most of the time. That's not happening. So if Hackett is not communicating the info, or not communicating it in a timely fashion, then JD, Saleh, or Rodgers need to get in Hackett's face; otherwise, it looks like they're not doing their jobs.
I agree that fan bases largely make emotional judgements about their favorite teams. That's because we often don't have all the facts. I try not to make knee jerk snap judgments. You ought to have seen the other site where I post yesterday and today. Posters were blaming the loss on not having Devante Adams, wanting to trade Breece and Wilson, fire Saleh and hire Rex, and all manner of irrational, crazy crap.
That said, we've largely seen this movie for the last 4 years. Supposedly, this is an "all in" season, and with a quarter of the season almost gone, they don't have time to dick around. They have to quickly figure out where the problems lie and get them resolved. Patience is a virtue until it gets in the way of fixing things. For years, the Jets have not seemed to have any sense of urgency, and the fanbase is fed up. I'm one of them. If the Jets don't make the playoffs this season and Saleh is back, I'm done. 60 years of this aggravation and BS is enough. Sports are supposed to be fun and entertaining, not frustrating and depressing.
I don't really care what the problems are, but they damn well had better care and get them resolved, or their might literally be a pitchfork brigade storming One Jets Way.
* He doesn't anticipate Rodgers being on the injury report this week after getting "banged up."
* He said it's a "sick" feeling anytime a QB gets hit that many times (14)
* After hinting yesterday that they might examine the effectiveness of Rodgers' cadence, Saleh said they have no plans to change it because it's what they do.
*
I JUST LOVE THE FOLLOWING EXCUSE
He said coaches are taking a hard look at ways they can eliminate the pre-snap penalties -- i.e. "clear (the players') minds." Suggested they might be giving them too much to think about pre-snap.
WHAT THE FUCK COULD THEY BE THINKING ABOUT BESIDES THE PLAY CALLED
I truly don't mean to condescend, but there is quite a bit more to pre-snap than "the play called." It is very possible that they're putting too much emphasis on checking things at the line, creating a lot of different possible assigments for any given player.
Consider this: let's say that the simplest play call is one where all players have one assignment regardless of the defense.
You start inserting confusion (and a lot of it is necessary and worth it) when you begin adding checks and contingencies into the call. Most of their calls are going to be full of checks that depend on the front, number of backers in the box, number of players in the box, number of safeties high, run versus pass which will clearly change the entire call at times, and personnel.
Let's say the most convoluted example of this is the following:
The call is three fold: power to the right if the box is light, check either direction depending on the strength of the defense, check in either direction depending on the alignment of Zach Allen, check who the puller is depending on the alignment of the backside defensive tackle, option of whether to check the "route concept" of the receivers depending on the safety alignment in order to throw a quick screen with screen blocking (as opposed to your usual stalk blocking and most-dangerous-man release to the second level) if the back (or front) side has numbers, and check out of ALL of that if Rodgers sees they're bringing the house to something quick game (slants? hitches? etc), and a bunch of that stuff is communicated in Rodgers' cadence.
While I tend to think it isn't nearly as complicated as we might think, I also know it isn't simple. Football has changed a lot in the last decade, two decades, three decades. It's much more complex.
It shouldn't be because football players haven't gotten much smarter than they were 10-20 years ago. If anything, they're probably dumber because the quality of education in this country has gone down the crapper.
The one thing that Rex Ryan had right was KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Adding a bunch of complexity just makes it more likely there will be a penalty or blown assignments. Teams aren't together for 5-10 years any more. That's all the more reason why things should be kept simple.
You hit on it. Things have gotten much more complicated, the positions have gotten more difficult to teach, the groups that require thousands of hours of practice and bonding to succeed (offensive linemen together, quarterbacks and receivers) have had the number of hours practicing their craft cut in two. It's amazing that some of these offensive linemen are able to compete at the level they do, given the amount of information they're being asked to process, the athletic disadvantage they're being put in, and the dearth of practice time they're allotted.
Danny Boy, well done! A little wordy but on the money. I have broached this topic several times but it gets lost in all the other more obvious issue’s.
I accidentally cut my last comment short. 😂 Anyway, we all remember Denzel Mims. 6’3 215 with 4.38 speed. Couldn’t get on the field. Why, he had no clue how to assimilate into today’s modern NFL offense. Gotta recognize sight adjustments, man vs zone, leverage, complimentary route adjustments. People thought it was BS when MLF said he needed to know all 3 positions. But it’s true. You need to know where your teammates are so you don’t bring your defender into the area the play targets.
There's a reason he hasn't been able to stick on a roster despite being a former 2nd round draft pick. You just outlined it! 😂
All of those little extra things that receivers are doing...Denzel wasn't able to develop those skills and understandings. It's unfortunate because the dude was put on this planet to play ball.
They say that sometimes when things go bad, you should sleep on it and wake up with a clearer mind.
I went to bed pissed, but woke up really pissed of.
I’m not a fan of owner interference especially when it involves the Johnson’s but Woody needs to get this coaching staff straightened out.
After the 2022 season, knowing that Rodgers could be available set in motion the Grand Plan.
After supposedly interviewing numerous offensive coordinators, by some magical process, it was decided that Hackett was the most qualified OC.
Baldy and JD to put their master plan in motion used Hackett like the carrot on a stick to attract Rodgers.
Rodgers never asked for Hackett to be here, because Baldy and JD had already hired him( WE ALL KNOW THE REST)
Woody Johnson needs to have a meeting with Baldy and JD and demand, not ask nicely, but demand them to fire Hackett.
If Saleh or JD push back with some rhetorical nonsense, then Woody HAS to say if you won’t get rid of him, then resign. Because one way or another, Hackett is not only a coaching disaster but also a PR disaster.
At this point, does any reader here actually believe that if Woody fired Saleh and Hackett, it would hurt the team. Make Middleton, Oden or Whitecotton the interim HC. Make Downing the OC. The fact Ulbrich talked to SF this offseason to be their DC, sorts of shows his loyalty
If it pisses Rodgers off, so what, he’s an employee and part of yesterday’s disaster
Many fans paid hard earned money to sit through that disaster yesterday, Woody’s loyalty should be reserved for them not Hackett or Saleh.
It think it might cause more issues than it'd solve. This team, honestly, would be better off had Rodgers retired or gone away. From what we know, Rodgers is the reason Hackett is around, and this team has so much capital invested in Rodgers, they have to do everything they can to make him a happy camper. It'd have been better if he'd have just retired or if he got some silly non-football injury, like insanity from too much ayuasca. I think that, then, they'd be more inclined to get rid of Hackett, promote Downing, and provide more consistency to this team. I don't think this is Saleh protecting Hackett. Remember...Saleh's preferred coordinator was the guy he handpicked who, in turn, was hung out to dry by being paired with a project quarterback and no veteran alternative.
I think it is possible there is some Douglas hitching his wagon to Rodgers in all of this, but I always got the impression that Woody was the one insisting on Rodgers, not Douglas (and definitely not Saleh).
I have a solution for next weeks game David. Try to find a Jet and a Viking Darnold Jersey. Cut both equally in half then stitch a right half Jet Jersey to a left half Viking Jersey. People will think That you are a Darnold fan. The Kelce’s mother got away with it. If you suffer, you will suffer in silence.
I don’t agree with any of the Darnold comments he did not leave the Jets and become an immediate success, it took multiple years and multiple teams for him to find some success. Would the torch and pitchfork brigade had the patience for that to develop. I think not. NFL teams change OC’s during the season or at least change who calls the plays the Jets need to make that change yesterday, this team with all the talent can’t be allowed to fail. I believe I could motivate this team better than the current regime.
I would have endorsed that patience. Then again, I also thought that they should've kept Darnold, skipped on drafting a quarterback, brought in Jacoby Brissett to compete with Darnold, and spent a little extra dough on the offensive line. Also, don't draft the touched-by-god physically gifted offensive lineman with major weight problems. Essentially, they should've provided Mike LaFleur with a veteran quarterback to learn his offense.
First I missed most of the game yesterday due to clean up from hurricane Hellene and the fact that I had to repair my own internet cable because Xfinity was too busy to get to it. I only saw about the last 7 minutes but that was enough for me see know I was better off not seeing it. I always try to be positive in my posts but can’t find anything positive to say. I will agree with David, when your defense only allows 10 points you should win, even if the defense played bad the offense should and must put up more then 9 points to win against any team.
The best word to summarize this game was ABYSMAL. I am quite fortunate that living overseas, I am able to watch the condensed version, thereby limiting my time of torturous exposure to 40 minutes rather than 3 hours plus. Excepting the first half defense ( though there were no sacks or real pressures), this was a total abomination. Unfortunately, while many of the Jets games are stressful rather than enjoyable), I don't think I have felt this way after a game in a long long time. Maybe that is because I was finally expecting better. I will let u guys go into all the hideous details.
I wrote this long post on my phone in this comment section and went to a browser to look up a name and came back to it being all gone. :) it had so much detail and I didn't copy it. kinda the icing on the cake. So I'll scrap those thoughts and just say:
Fire Tony Dews, Keith Carter, Nathaniel Hackett, and Robert Saleh if we go 0-2 against Vikings and Bills. Those dominoes should fall in that order. Promote Ulbrich and Middleton. Finish the season with some real effort
I wrote out like 15 things that stuck out while watching the game live. Some mentioned in other comments, others weren't. I'm too lazy to do it again
Great summary, David.
For those that always wanted to blame Zach last year, you just saw an exact replica of one of his games. Difference is Zach would have taken all the heat from this game, and Saleh would have been happy to give it to him. What is the same? The coaching staff, lack of preparation, lack of discipline, inability to adjust to their game plan - how the hell did they keep putting Breece out there when it was super obvious the Denver game plan was to key on him???
There is also that Saleh mentality that the D will win these games, and they actually sat on a 3 point lead. Aaron and Saleh are not in sync and it could get ugly imo. Aaron saw how Saleh left Zach out to dry, and is not going to let that happen to him. Saleh needs to explain to all of us how Allen never got a crack at 1st and goal from the one!
Happy to beat bobber this morning - 800 pages takes time.
My thoughts are that nobody on this staff is comfortable coaching offense. Rodgers is the QB, leader and offensive coordinator.
I didn't put this in, but after the game it seemed as though Saleh suggested that maybe the cadence of Rodgers may have been a problem, and then when asked Rodgers said something like 'Yeah maybe that's it, or maybe we need to have some accountability', it was something like that anyway.
I saw that. Shows deeper issues between them. Simpson and Breece were jumpy all day. All the more reason that Breece should have sat. No accountability is the hallmark of the Saleh regime.
Yeah I have no idea what was wrong with Breece yesterday, but you could see he wasn't at it from the start in any facet of the game.
Breece has looked bad all season. On the other Jets' fan site where I post, quite a few posters there think Breece has lost confidence and is too busy looking over his shoulder at Allen. I have no idea if that's right or not, but he's clearly not the same player this year as in the last two.
Their game plan was to stop him. They flew to him all game. Jets rarely used their flow against them. Very arrogant.
Douglas, no doubt Breece was not right. But I don’t think it was lack of ability or interest on his part. I think it’s about preparation which is not necessarily on him. Listening to his post game comments it’s clear he cares but it’s also clear he was unsure about his assignments based on the formations they were in on several occasions. He felt he wasn’t in the best position to protect AR with the looks Denver was in several times. Bottom line is there was confusion and that goes to coaching once again.
You hit the nail on the head. The offense seemed out of sorts and nobody was on the same page. It, honestly, gives credence to the reports about the offense last season (that the communication within the offensive staff was terrible and it came from Hackett being a poor leader/communicator).
I was gonna point that out but you beat me to it. Just rewatched the post game presser and I think looking at Aaron’s reaction to Saleh suggesting dialing the snap cadence back clearly pissed of Rodgers. He had the same look of disdain as it appeared last week on that no hug thing so maybe that questionable issue from last week may have something to do to it after all.
This remark alone should get Saleh fired. He must really mesmerize Woody with statements like this. All Saleh double talk.
Saleh yesterday on Rodgers' cadence as perhaps the reason for the false starts: "We’ve got to figure it out, whether or not we’re good enough or ready to handle all the cadence. Cadence had not been an issue all camp. Felt like our operation had been operating pretty good, obviously, today it took a major step back."
Saleh today on whether they need to alter the cadence: "No. No. Yesterday I was mentioning operation. We're always going to push the envelope with cadence. Always. But with regards to operation, getting in and out of the huddle, getting to the line of scrimmage, the communication that's being had, those are all things that we can continue to look at and clean up. But from a cadence standpoint, that's part of what makes us who we are and we're going to continue to always push the envelope on that."
You don't mess with Rodgers' cadence.
Saleh time is over for me.
It felt like Saleh getting a little bit too honest. He, probably, should've been a little bit more tight lipped about what he thought the issues were, but it was pretty obvious that the issues were rooted in communication on the offensive side of the ball. Guys being jump, unsure, and out of sync tells me that the players on that side of the ball weren't completely comfortable with the gameplan and that it, perhaps, hadn't been communicated well.
When I think I have an idea what David will post, I’ll write my comments the night before. When it’s about one subject say like the draft or cutdown day, it becomes relatively easy to put a few ideas together, maybe add a joke or two and voila my long winded comment. This game yesterday was such a disaster, I actually had no clue where to start. Too show what a complete disaster it was neither David in his column or myself in my comments, mentioned the Great Allen Lazard, three penalties costing the Jets gained yardage and adding on penalty yardage.
You are right about one thing, it would probably take 800 pages to cover this disaster
There was so much stink from that game I think we'd have had to go on forever to cover them all. I had forgotten about Lazards penalties, he was slow off the snap just like everyone else. At least he made a couple of nice grabs, but not enough to make up the awfulness of everything.
To be fair, that ball spin call against him was criminal behavior by the ref.
That was insane, right?! Lazard seemed to spin the ball and do the Shooter McGavin "finger guns" at the ball. Is that, truly, unsportsmanlike? I'm skeptical.
I think anything resembling using a gun in today’s society is taboo. Leagues definitely frown on it
You've got that right. I'm generally of that mind, as well. It was kind of bone headed on Lazard's part. I didn't think it was necessarily unsportsmanlike and it felt much sillier than some of the gun-related stuff you see, but Lazard is a veteran and should probably just pull a Breece (hand the ball back to the ref, and get back to the huddle).
I'm not sure I'd agree that they, necessarily "sat" on the lead. The offense was out of sync all day long and I'm, honestly, not sure what was going on with the offensive line. I'm usually one to defend the head coach because, largely, this stuff isn't because of something that the head coach, explicitly, is doing. That isn't going to change, today. I'm not sure why the running game flat out didn't work. I'm not sure why Breece Hall looked out of sorts. I'm not sure why Tyron Smith looked so off. I think Saleh's answer about the cadence is refreshingly honest. It's very likely that Aaron Rodgers' unusual cadence probably resulted in some of the timing struggles along the offensive line. I agree that certain players could be held accountable, but I suppose I'm left wondering what a layman thinks "accountability" looks like, especially in professional football. Not only does the head coach not police poor play or poor preparation on an individual player level, he isn't doing it on a specific side of the ball, either. We already knew that the offensive side of the ball was run outside of the usual structure of things. We already knew that they were run, ostensibly, by a combination of Rodgers and Hackett, without a ton of input from Saleh. That structure was set up above the head coach's head, unfortunately. Perhaps it's the kind of setup is a kind of catch 22 price for getting Rodgers into the building. In order to get Rodgers to come, they had to hire his buddy, and in order to hire his buddy, they had to provide a certain organizational structure.
Danny Boy, everything you’re saying is for the most part accurate and true. But it’s not working. Certainly not yesterday. So the question now becomes; is it fixable? Can we get our guys on the same page. Is it too complicated for our guys. Listening to Breece Hall in the post game he was often uncomfortable in pass pro. He felt he wasn’t positioned properly to pick up blitz’s on several occasions. The uncertainty prompted him to flinch on two occasions that resulted in penalties. That’s a problem. AR’s was visibly upset with quite a few route choices by GW and others. Watching this game felt like watching an early preseason game where you’re trying to work out the kinks. ( oh wait, our starters don’t play preseason games) Hmmmm, maybe that needs to be reevaluated? Tyrone Smith was totally out of synch all game. Maybe he needs more work. These 2 team practices are just not the same as game action. There is no crowd. Therefore no noise. No excitement that generates the adrenaline that happens in a game. There were no game officials calling penalties and no clock to worry about. Not sure this is the best way to prepare for a season.
Huge issue not playing any preseason. Another Saleh decision. Plays and coaches scared on O.
😂 Reading this conversation back I think maybe we’re doing the same thing AR’s is doing to our offensive unit to this group….🤔 😂
You're on it, as usual. The offense feels like a overloaded buffet plate of Leaning Tower of Pisa proportions. Rodgers and Hackett have this offense that, largely, makes sense. Everything is correct. The x's and o's all check out. The probelm seems to be that they've overloaded a number of their players, most notably some starter-caliber players who aren't exactly dummies. Breece Hall has regularly graded out as an amazing tail back. Tyron Smith and John Simpson have excelled with good, playoff-caliber, offenses. Tyron is one of the best five tackles of the last decade. Even these guys are expressing that what Rodgers and (possibly to a lesser degree) Hackett want to do. Rodgers' mind for football operates at a drastically different speed than most players, so it takes an offensive staff that isn't afraid to hit the brakes and adjust the offense to fit the football IQ of the rest of the team. They aren't doing it right now. Hopefully, they tear out chunks of the offense and simplify things moving forward. They have as much talent as I've seen on a Jets team in well over a decade.
Also....that thing about Breece being confused in pass pro; it was on full display on the final offensive snap of the game. They Broncos sent a blitz that, essentially, was bringing heat in every gap. I think there were, actually, numbers enough for the offensive line to handle the pressure up the middle, while the Broncos were bringing the cheat code (2 in one gap) off of the edge). Tyron Smith and John Simpson actually handled it pretty well (Smith expanding to cover the 5 gap and Simpson expanding to cover the 3). Unfortunately, Breece filled 1 gap where there was no pressure, and the fella outside of Tyron and Simpson (who each picked up their men) ran free. So...the protection wasn't communicated to everybody. Either Smith and Simpson need to be expanding to the EMOL (which is tough because you'd be asking each guy to kick out a full two gaps) so Breece can slot into that inside gap, or Breece needs to adjust to pick up the dude off the edge. I wonder who is calling the protections for the offense.
David, if you can find it Matt Ryan talking to former Steelers coach on the post game show really hit it out of the park discussing the poor communication on the route choices between AR and GW. The video clearly shows they were not on the same page. It’s gonna be tough to win a lot of football games if this keeps up.
Breece almost got Aaron killed on one play. Aaron told his ass the DB was coming and he whiffed and didn't pick up the blitz. He had his head so far up his ass to protect him from yesterdays elements. He needs to step it up big time!
S !!!!! O !!!!!! J !!!!!! I wasn't surprised in the least at that debacle yesterday. The hallmark of a Saleh team has become a lack of discipline, a lack of accountability, a lack of proper preparation and a lack of intelligence on the part of the supposed head coach. Plain and simple, he's an empty suit that spouts gibberish and half-truths at every presser and it's pathetic to watch. He's a waste of space and Woody did the team a disservice by not cleaning house after last year's monstrosity. And it has absolutely nothing to do with AR getting hurt on the fourth play of the season. With the shambles of the o-line, he would have gotten hurt at some point during the season. He also knows zip, nada, nothing about offense, and when you add in that mope The Hacker, it's even worse.
The comments about the weather, AR's cadence and any other excuse about the game ring very hollow, because it's the same thing at every presser. It comes down to three things, accountability, discipline and preparedness. Everyone knows the 6 P's. Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance. There are three very important games coming up in the next 3 weeks, and if the issues are not even partially solved, the team could be looking at 2-5 and the season very much in danger. They say a team takes on the identity of its coach, and Saleh's identity is an abject failure. You can bring in all the players you want, but if the coach gives off a negative vibe, it's going to filter down to every part of the team. It's way past time to cut him loose, along with Keith Carter and The Hacker. I don't know enough about Tony Dews to make any kind of determination. Something has to be done, and done now ! Waiting until after Minnesota or Buffalo is too late. I've never been a coach, but I've played under coaches, both good and bad, so I know how that can affect a team's performance. Right now, the HC of the NYC is a disaster and needs to go. Make Ron Middleton the interim HC.
What sorts of preparations do you think that Saleh is missing?
Oooops, I meant HC of the NYJ, lolololol.
If you haven't seen it already, check out Damien Woody's ripping Saleh a new one. Woody is spot on.
https://x.com/antwanstaley/status/1840738579275792494?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1840738579275792494%7Ctwgr%5E18fb5420731f2357195c6056d148c770b897a252%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.jetnation.com%2Findex.php%3Fapp%3Dcoremodule%3Dsystemcontroller%3Dembedurl%3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fx.com%2Fantwanstaley%2Fstatus%2F1840738579275792494
Douglas, Ditto! He’s gotta go. If JD doesn’t like it he can follow him out the door.
The Jets turned into “Jetsies”. I hope the Mets don’t do the same. Need to only split the doubleheader.
Hopefully my last two thoughts
A little history lesson for readers of the Jet way.
I have lived all my life and still do about 5 miles from the Meadowlands.
I have mentioned my age a few times, 75, birthday is right around the corner.
When I was a kid, the whole area around the stadium was once either pig farms, swamps or garbage dumps, mostly from NYC. But all three were there at the same time.
If you have ever drove down the NJ Turnpike South past the stadium and wondered what the unbelievable huge mountains of dirt are that is covered upped garbage.
Back then whenever my father drove his 4 door two toned Ford Fairlane on route 3, the stench especially on hot muggy days was unbearable.
No one had car air conditioning back then. We would hand crank the windows up as fast as possible when driving past that area
Every one called it Secaucus which is a town right there but it included other towns.
The pig farms were owned by Henry “ Piggy ”Krajewski, he actually would run for president every 4 years as a third party nominee for many years Google him, he’s there
My point about the history lesson
Is this. You can drain swamps, cover garbage up with dirt and build stadiums, motels, hotels, restaurants and parking lots over pig farms but the stench is still there as we witnessed yesterday, history does repeat it self.
Yesterday, every shot of Garrett on the field also showed an orange #2 jersey attached to him like white on rice.
Nix had 60 yards passing, all caught by one player Sutton. Not one other Bronco had any positive receiving yardage .
As this game was being played, why wasn’t Sauce Sutton’s white on rice.
Excuse me but Saleh’s fantastic defensive schemes do not call for that kind of coverage.
Repeating myself when Sutton caught that pass, the nearest Jet Jersey was sitting in the second row of the stands.
About 5-7 yards in front of him were Reed and a safety looking at each other, body language saying he was your guy. A good DC would have had Sutton be Sauce’s guy.
Another example of the over hyped Saleh defense who he never criticizes.
As Bobber said (even though i followed the team for close to 60 years) - I am NOT a Jets fan. I know their history and i honestly did not see that pile of steaming crap coming. Glad Bobber has the pulse of FAKE Jets Fans. Lets explain why i am NOT a Jets fan, especially to Bobber, why i was surprised:
1) Why would i think a HOF QB would not get the team into the EZ just once aaginst a crap team ?
2) Why would i think a HOF QB would slide 2 yards short of the first down marker when he has played for 100 years ? I coud see the stick from my seat for crying out loud !
3) Why would i think that a defense that calls itself 'elite/top 5" can't make a stop when they absolulty have to (Contrary to what David writes) They are average at best. Allow a TD to a wide open guy in the EZ.
4) Why would i think that the head coach is going to play "buddy system" sending Breece Hall into the line for no gain over and over and over again ?
5) Why would I think that Zack Wilson can beat Denver but Aaron Rogers cant ?
6) Why would i think that AVT would say "we played our asses off" when they allowed 5 sacks and 15 pressures. Was the guy in the right game or playing someplace else ?
7) Why would i think a HOF QB would continue to throw balls into the dirt like Zack Wilson used to do ?
8) Why would i think with 10 days off The Jets had no game plan ?
9) Why would i think The Jets would commit 13 penalties ?
10) Why would i think that Breece Hall & Garret Wilson look like crap and did nothing to help the team win a game? That is becuase they are not a good as they keep telling everyone they are but I did not see that coming at all cause i am NOT a real Jets fan.
11) Why would i think that at home - even in the rain - against a terrble team with a rookie QB would The Jets would not win a game even by a point ?
12) What REAL Jets fan thinks like all of this ?
13) Why would i think this team was better then past years and would be playing for a playoff spot Which is certainly out of the question !!
14) Why would i think in a week to week league The Jets will beat the Vikings next week cause that is what Saleh coached teams do (then not show up at home the following week against the Bills)
15 Now i am GLAD i clarfied for us NON Jets fans who have followed the team for years exactly why we are NOT Jets fans - sheesh !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Are you kidding me - really ? When do the NY Rangers start play ? I need to check if I'm still a fan of them before the season starts.
Great post, Steve!
Many posts started two days after the Pat win with the theme, this is the type of game the Jets always lose
Diehards who are realists will admit that this game scared them.
The Jets have shown more times than not, they will shit in their pants when a winnable game is lost.
It happened to Parcells, Herm, Mangini, Rex, Bowles, and Gase.
It’s not a Saleh thing, this team constantly does it.
They very really build on success.
It happened to Namath,
This franchise can never live with success
BS!!! "Diehards who are pessimists will admit that this game scared them." "There I fixed it for you. You're a pessimist, not a realist, so get the hell outta here with that BS!
Agree i am NOT a real Jets Fan - how silly to post that in a long time Jets Group. People who write things like that don't really know the Jets at all !!!!!!!!
Oh my…….
If any Jet fan says they are surprised by yesterday’s final score, I only have one thing to say to them and that is “ YOU ARE NOT A TRUE JET FAN. YOU KNOW NOTHING OF JET HISTORY.
There is not one true Jet fan who didn’t see this one coming.
Trying not to be emotional is very hard to do.
The Jets on their very first play attempted to pass, Rodgers sacked. That was it, the vaunted Hackett vanilla prevent offense was put into motion for the rest of the game. Run the ball on first and second and attempt to pass on third down. Hackett’s recipe for failure.
Hackett needs to be fired immediately, First down on the Broncos one and Braelon Allen is on the bench getting splinters in his ass.
Allen for the game,34 yds on 8 carries 4.2 yds a carry.
Hall 4 yds on 10 carries that’s .04 a carry, exactly what he averaged on his two carries there.
That play sequence there totally justified what Payton said about Hackett’s coaching ability.
After the pass interference call at the end of the fourth quarter, you couldn’t have called a worse play sequence. Empty backfield, why, everything was in the Jets favor. No attemps to run, Just passes that were so off of the mark, it appeared as if Zach was playing quarterback again for the Jets. The weather was horrible, the ball was wet, a couple of yards might have made a difference.
Didn’t this fantastic coaching staff know that Denver blitzes on 43% of their plays. Going empty backfield just telegraphed the Jets intentions.
This team should be 1-3, since the Titan quarterback did his best to give that game away.
Where were the play action, screens, draw plays.
They really surprised the Broncos having Solomon Thomas running a route on 3rd and goal
We were told countless times before the season, that Rodgers cadence causes teams trouble. Saleh and Hackett said it a few times. They were 100% right. Except it the over rated Jet offensive line moving, 5 times yesterday. I think there was one Denver offside, that’s coaching which this team sorely lacks.
A typical Saleh coached game, slow starting, totally undisciplined, 15 penalties of which 13 were accepted, Then came his patented response about penalties, after Sunday’s game as it was repeated mostly every week last year, as the same problems persisted week after week: “We gotta figure it out.”
If you haven’t figured it out yet, then you and your HC record of 22-36 need to be fired.
As far as this so-called great defense, that wording is totally in the minds of the sports writers, fans and Jet coaches.
Great defenses don’t let an opposing teams best wide receiver alone in the end zone. The closest Jet Jersey to Sutton was sitting in the second row.
Jets go up 9-7, the great defense lets them come down the field to score the winning fg.
Please don’t tell me they only gave 10 points because the Torch and Pitchfork Brigade’s Analytic algorithm says the only important number is wins, every other mindless statistic is bulls**t.
Unfortunately baseball, hockey and basketball are built to bring outsiders to replace managers and HC during the season.
Cant be done in football
But if it could happen Woody should be talking to Vrabel at this moment.
In the words of that great HC Jim Mora, “ Playoffs, Playoffs, don’t talk to me about playoffs”
At least not as long as Saleh and Hackett are here. This team has zero chance of making the playoffs.
By the way, if they would have showed up yesterday, they would be in first place right now in the division.
I’m 76 years old, been a Jet fan since 1963, beat cancer and have always been confident they would prevail, even when common sense said “ no chance”.
After yesterday’s catastrophe, I can honestly say I’m very lucky that I was able to watch and savor Super Bowl 3, because I will never see another Jet appearance in a Super Bowl in my lifetime.
Next week, Sam Darnold, the NFL leader in td passes will probably have 3-4 more over this overrated defense.
Remember him, the guy both Saleh and JD didn’t want.
And please, I know every Jet Darnold story out there, I don’t need to be reminded. He is another victim of a terrible, over rated Jet coaching staff.
So I guess that according to you I'm not a true Jet fan and know nothing of Jet history because I didn't see that shit show yesterday coming? I guess I've slept through the last 60 years.
Thanks! I thought the team had learned and was moving past that. There's no way this team should have lost yesterday and have played that poorly. Saleh and Hackett must go NOW! They are totally to blame! Daniel save your breath and energy, because nothing you say will change my mind. Saleh and Hackett are the chief culprits, but Carter, Dews, and maybe Jefferson deserve a share in the blame.
What sorts of things could Saleh, personally, have done differently? Sometimes I wonder what fans think head coaches do and what their roles are. Of course, they instill a certain amount of discipline in a team, but the Jets' problems on Sunday (and on previous Sundays) are rarely players simply being undisciplined. I think there is a certain amount to be about accountability, but there is only so much a head coach like Saleh can do in this scenario. He's been paired with a quarterback and offensive coordinator, and the staff underneath that coordinator (Hackett) are largely untouchable. Further still, I don't see the issue as being the entire offensive staff being incompetent. The communication structure seems to be completely off and the offense looks like it's overinstalled. The head coach is a general manager, in this sense. There are certain bits of coaching that he's doing, but he's also handling personalities and leading. His main focus, for the last year and a half, has probably been figuring out ways to nudge changes on the offensive side without explicitly telling Hackett to make changes (because it's not really clear he has the authority to straight up do so). I agree that the staff (mostly the offensive side) has been a mess, but it's largely one that came as a result of half baked plans for internal infrastructure.
What things would you like to see Robert Saleh personally do? I'm genuinely curious.
I'm not sure his hands are tied to the extent that you think they are. If they are, then it's little wonder things are so screwed up. If so, then JD needs to have a meeting with Woody first and lay out the changes that have to be made, and if those changes will affect Rodgers, then have a meeting with Rodgers to let him know what is coming, and then call a come to Jesus meeting and read the riot act to the CS and make changes if needed. Rodgers be damned if he's the problem, and Hackett should be told in no uncertain terms to pull his head out of his ass and quit being so conservative. I don't believe that Rodgers is the problem however. I believe that Hackett's conservatism isn't solely his fault. I think a large part of it may be directly a result of Saleh's coaching style and orders. We've seen it since day one. Saleh is conservative, coaches not to lose, and tries to win with D. That shit doesn't work. If you're to be conseravtive and predictable in your offense, then your team damn well better be able to out-execute, out-run, and/or out-muscle opposing teams.
There's clearly a reason why Wilson and Breece look worse with Rodgers at QB than they did with Wilson and the others. Whatever that reason is, needs to be figured out an resolved. If the scheme is too complex, then as you suggested, scrap the complexity and simplify things. I HATE the WCO. It supposedly takes 3 years to learn and more to master it. With the way teams personnel turns over, it's no longer practical to run that offense unless one has really smart players and a CS who is adept at teaching players their responsibilities. If Rodgers and Hackett are trying to do things on offense that Breece, Wilson and the OL are incapable of doing, then they need to be told to stop it. That isn't going to help anything. It doesn't matter what Rodgers is able to do if the rest of the offense can't do it along with him.
If the effort is lacking to work and learn the game plan, then Saleh needs to get in players faces and chew their asses out. A successful HC has to be part counselor/psychiatrist and figure out what his players need, not just throw platitudes at them. He needs to figure out what is wrong with Breece and Wilson and get them untracked. Maybe benching Breece will piss him off so much, that the next time he gets on the field he'll take his anger out on the opposing D. If he's pouting because of Allen, Saleh needs to tell him to grow up and get over it. Competition is part of football. I think part of Wilson's problem is his playing in the slot so much. Why are they treating him like a lesser WR? He supposedly is the Jets #1 WR. If he is, then he needs to be on the outside. Rodgers and Wilson need to be on the same page. That should have happened in TC and preseason. Saleh should have gotten involved and found out why they weren't on the same page and taken steps to remedy the situation. If Rodgers expectations are not realistic for Wilson's skill set or mental approach, then Rodgers needs to change. I find it hard to believe that Wilson isn't working hard or is just inflexible. Earlier in the season he was quoted as saying that he liked how he and Rodgers were talking back and forth and explaining what each likes and expects. There is a disconnect there, and it's Saleh's responsibility as the HC to fix it yesterday.
I trust Rodgers one heck of a lot more than I do Saleh. Rodgers commenting on accountability is telling imo, as was his shove of Saleh in last week's game. Damien Woody sure knows football and he lays it all at Saleh's feet. Saleh is the HC. The buck stops there and he will be held responsible if it all turns to shit. Saleh obviously runs a loose and undisciplined practice. He should be able to tell in practice if players are confused, uncertain of their assignments and make changes BEFORE the game, not move ahead and hope for the best.
There is absolutely no excuse for the Jets always losing (except for 1 time) after a BYE week or mini-bye. That has to be on the HC and his lack of preparation, of discipline. He is soft and makes too many excuses. Coming off their big win vs the Pats, a weaker opponent coming to play them at home, and extra days of rest, the Jets should have come out ready to blow Denver out, the weather be damned. Saleh set the tone with his saying that he knew it was going to be tough because of the weather. His expectations and standards are too low. He's more worried about being liked and being a friend to the players than he is winning It's Rex Part Deux.
It's hard to say in more detail what he could/should have done differently because I'm not there at practices and coach meetings. I can only go on his comments in his press conferences and how the team performs. Those things tell me that he is soft, expectations/standards too low, and he's not tough-minded and not enough of a disciplinarian. With disciplinarian HCs one doesn't see the constant sloppy play, penalties and slow starts. Perhaps he needs to give the team fewer days off, work them harder in practice after layoffs when they get back or try something different. Read some players the riot act, or do something to get their attention.
If Hackett still isn't communicating and working with his offensive staff, then Rodgers should get in Hackett's face and Saleh should be able to as well. Rodgers knows that lack of communication and everyone being on the same page will undermine the offense and make him look bad. If he's allowing himself and team to suffer because of Hackett's stupidity, then shame on him. Saleh should be able to discipline players for repeated penalties if their minds are elsewhere and not focused. The CBA may not allow it, but teams ought to be able to fine players or dock their pay for repeated poor play. If the inmates are running the asylum and there's nothing a HC can do, they might as well just shut down the NFL today. I don't think that's the case. It's funny that other teams don't have these issues, at least to the extent that the Jets do. You don't see those problems repeatedly with Andy Reid's, Sean Payton's, Shanahan's, Mike Tomlin's, or the Harbaughs' teams.
I largely agree with the underlying problems. Where we probably disagree, at a fundemental level, is how one goes about fixing the problems. Ideas about disciplinarian coaches versus friendly players' coaches, I think, can be largely overblown, especially when you're dealing with a team of professionals. The tactics that you'd mentioned are one thing with a group of kids (totally understand that these dudes in their mid-twenties are essentially kids to most of us; but I mean more, not in college and they're professionals with agency of their own), but an entirely different matter with a group of adults. I do think that there is something to be desired when it comes to the team discipline and how they handle dumb mistakes in games, but those dumb mistakes aren't usually a case of guys needing to be yelled out or disciplined. There is, likely, a breakdown in communication of the expectations. I think Saleh can do better, but he has largely been progressing and becoming a better coach. It could, of course, be one of those instances where he'll get fired after the year, move on to become a coordinator and associated head coach somewhere, and then actually have a little success in his second go at the job.
I do, however, think that the teams that you mentioned aren't necessarily more disciplinarian or more accountable. Each of those fellas (except for Tomlin...he's a unicorn) is on their second or third head job, and they've had a couple of cracks at determining the right style. Andy Reid's teams, while being largely amazing for the last decade, have been notoriously prone to bone-headed plays and fiery personalities (Kelce, Toney, etc). It's also notable that he was dropped into a strong situation with regard to front office and ownership. Harbaugh has had his share of competitive teams that largely relied on the same defense-first mentality that Saleh's teams have attempted to win with. Harbaugh, also, was inserted into a entrenched front office structure. Shanahan is in a similar situation. I think there is a lot of nature versus nurture to this, and I usually am on the side of nurture. It's the same way with quarterbacks. A talented and able head coach isn't going to succeed if he is on a different page than ownership and the front office. I don't think Saleh is necessarily on a different page (or hasn't always been), but the Rodgers thing has always seemed like something that he is in the passenger seat for.
I'm still not sure who within the Jets organization was pushing so hard for Wilson. Was it Douglas? Was it a directive from ownership to draft a quarterback? I kind of doubt that Saleh was the brains behind drafting the untested and largely green quarterback who his hand picked offensive coordinator didn't want.
This next part is a legitimate question, and I'll probably ask it in a more prominent area of these comments: What kinds of things do ya'll think a head coach does to not start slow and not play undisciplined? I have my own idea of some of that stuff, and it largely isn't a head coach issue, especially considering the main culprits.
This is the first I've seen it stated that MLF didn't want Zach Wilson. In fact, I have read the exact opposite numerous times that MLF didn't want Wilson. If you're correct, then either Wilson should never have been drafted, or MLF told to suck it up
and do his job if the GM, scouts, and HC all thought Zach was the right move. Having a situation where the OC doesn't want the QB is a cluster fuck waiting to happen.
I disagree. Starting slow and undisciplined crap is TOTALLY on the HC. He is the one who sets the standards and expectation for the team's play. The buck stops with the HC. If the problem is with the players, then the HC needs to take steps, perhaps even drastic ones, to get their attention. If the assistant coaches or coordinators aren't doing their job, then it's on the HC to take steps to make them do their job or fire them. If Woody or JD has set up a situation where Saleh has no control, then that's totally wrong, but I don't believe that's the case. Things were the same way before Hackett and Rodgers came to the Jets. The constant is Robert Saleh. You make too many excuses for the coaches.
Also; I'm not really sure on the LaFleur front. I sort of remember him not being in favor of Wilson, but I kind of remember something about him being at the Wilson pro day. Let's say, I think it would've made sense for somebody trying to install all of that in his first try to have a vet quarterback to work with. It's very possible I'm working backward from a desired outcome in my mind with this one. I always got the impression he was like in brother in that he wanted to install HIS offense regardless of the guy behind the center.
OK, thanks.
I agree that in one sense it would make more sense for a rookie OC to have a veteran QB to work with right out of the gate, but then again in another sense, a veteran QB may not want to have to tutor/mentor a rookie OC who doesn't really know what he's doing.
I also agree that MLF was probably like his brother and many, if not most, NFL coordinators and head coaches that they want to run "their" scheme. I think more often than not that winds up biting them in the ass unless they're very, very good or very, very lucky.
I do think that the coaches could do a better job. I don't think that we necessarily disagree on that point. Where we disagree, however, is in the idea that this coaching staff and these coaches are bad at their jobs, have absolute control over the team, or that the grass is necessarily greener. A lot of teams play the coaching yo-yo game where they yo-yo back and forth between clamoring for a players' coach and clamoring for a disciplinarian. I don't think penalties are simply a reflection of players being undisciplined. There is probably a breakdown in communication somewhere on the staff. It seems to come on the offensive side of the ball given the number of dumb fixable mistakes over there, which tells me that they're doing this better on defense. The dumb mistakes, however, don't smell like the kind of undisciplined mistakes that just require a good yelling at or a punishment. They're communications breakdowns that reflect some growing pains but also some rot on the offensive staff, and I think a lot of the rot comes from Hackett (based on the reports about his communication style and leadership style). There is a certain amount of delegation that a head coach needs to do and I do feel like Saleh has done a mostly good job of this.
I think at the end of the day, fan bases make largely emotional judgements about their favorite teams devoid of hard facts. It's more feelings-based. People don't feel that the Jets play disciplined football. What is "disciplined" football? Playing without penalties? Okay; what kind of penalties? What way does such-and-such fan think that a coach fixes those penalties? Where do they think the breakdown is coming from? Etc. I find that fans (as we are) are operating with a tiny fraction of the information required to make such judgements. Making bold proclamations feels a little bit silly when there's so much unknown.
As far as this CS, they may not be "bad" at their jobs, but they're not good enough unless it's all on Hackett and poor communication. Still, I have to assume that position coaches get whatever new plays will be installed, and rule changes, information that is pertinent to the game on Sunday, and it's up to them to make sure that the players know their assignments, know the rules, and play at something approaching their highest level most of the time. That's not happening. So if Hackett is not communicating the info, or not communicating it in a timely fashion, then JD, Saleh, or Rodgers need to get in Hackett's face; otherwise, it looks like they're not doing their jobs.
I agree that fan bases largely make emotional judgements about their favorite teams. That's because we often don't have all the facts. I try not to make knee jerk snap judgments. You ought to have seen the other site where I post yesterday and today. Posters were blaming the loss on not having Devante Adams, wanting to trade Breece and Wilson, fire Saleh and hire Rex, and all manner of irrational, crazy crap.
That said, we've largely seen this movie for the last 4 years. Supposedly, this is an "all in" season, and with a quarter of the season almost gone, they don't have time to dick around. They have to quickly figure out where the problems lie and get them resolved. Patience is a virtue until it gets in the way of fixing things. For years, the Jets have not seemed to have any sense of urgency, and the fanbase is fed up. I'm one of them. If the Jets don't make the playoffs this season and Saleh is back, I'm done. 60 years of this aggravation and BS is enough. Sports are supposed to be fun and entertaining, not frustrating and depressing.
I don't really care what the problems are, but they damn well had better care and get them resolved, or their might literally be a pitchfork brigade storming One Jets Way.
From Saleh's presser this morning:
* He doesn't anticipate Rodgers being on the injury report this week after getting "banged up."
* He said it's a "sick" feeling anytime a QB gets hit that many times (14)
* After hinting yesterday that they might examine the effectiveness of Rodgers' cadence, Saleh said they have no plans to change it because it's what they do.
*
I JUST LOVE THE FOLLOWING EXCUSE
He said coaches are taking a hard look at ways they can eliminate the pre-snap penalties -- i.e. "clear (the players') minds." Suggested they might be giving them too much to think about pre-snap.
WHAT THE FUCK COULD THEY BE THINKING ABOUT BESIDES THE PLAY CALLED
WHAT THE POST GAME MEAL IS
WHO GETS THE BED BY THE WINDOW IN LONDON
WHERE THEY CAN GET THE BEST FISH AND CHIPS
THIS GUY HAS TO GO, ITS OVER
* DT Leki Fotu (IR) could return to practice
I truly don't mean to condescend, but there is quite a bit more to pre-snap than "the play called." It is very possible that they're putting too much emphasis on checking things at the line, creating a lot of different possible assigments for any given player.
Consider this: let's say that the simplest play call is one where all players have one assignment regardless of the defense.
You start inserting confusion (and a lot of it is necessary and worth it) when you begin adding checks and contingencies into the call. Most of their calls are going to be full of checks that depend on the front, number of backers in the box, number of players in the box, number of safeties high, run versus pass which will clearly change the entire call at times, and personnel.
Let's say the most convoluted example of this is the following:
The call is three fold: power to the right if the box is light, check either direction depending on the strength of the defense, check in either direction depending on the alignment of Zach Allen, check who the puller is depending on the alignment of the backside defensive tackle, option of whether to check the "route concept" of the receivers depending on the safety alignment in order to throw a quick screen with screen blocking (as opposed to your usual stalk blocking and most-dangerous-man release to the second level) if the back (or front) side has numbers, and check out of ALL of that if Rodgers sees they're bringing the house to something quick game (slants? hitches? etc), and a bunch of that stuff is communicated in Rodgers' cadence.
While I tend to think it isn't nearly as complicated as we might think, I also know it isn't simple. Football has changed a lot in the last decade, two decades, three decades. It's much more complex.
It shouldn't be because football players haven't gotten much smarter than they were 10-20 years ago. If anything, they're probably dumber because the quality of education in this country has gone down the crapper.
The one thing that Rex Ryan had right was KISS - Keep It Simple, Stupid. Adding a bunch of complexity just makes it more likely there will be a penalty or blown assignments. Teams aren't together for 5-10 years any more. That's all the more reason why things should be kept simple.
You hit on it. Things have gotten much more complicated, the positions have gotten more difficult to teach, the groups that require thousands of hours of practice and bonding to succeed (offensive linemen together, quarterbacks and receivers) have had the number of hours practicing their craft cut in two. It's amazing that some of these offensive linemen are able to compete at the level they do, given the amount of information they're being asked to process, the athletic disadvantage they're being put in, and the dearth of practice time they're allotted.
Danny Boy, well done! A little wordy but on the money. I have broached this topic several times but it gets lost in all the other more obvious issue’s.
Perhaps, in the crappy weather, dialing back some of the caveats and exceptions might have allowed the Jets' superior personnel to shine. Who knows.
I accidentally cut my last comment short. 😂 Anyway, we all remember Denzel Mims. 6’3 215 with 4.38 speed. Couldn’t get on the field. Why, he had no clue how to assimilate into today’s modern NFL offense. Gotta recognize sight adjustments, man vs zone, leverage, complimentary route adjustments. People thought it was BS when MLF said he needed to know all 3 positions. But it’s true. You need to know where your teammates are so you don’t bring your defender into the area the play targets.
There's a reason he hasn't been able to stick on a roster despite being a former 2nd round draft pick. You just outlined it! 😂
All of those little extra things that receivers are doing...Denzel wasn't able to develop those skills and understandings. It's unfortunate because the dude was put on this planet to play ball.
They say that sometimes when things go bad, you should sleep on it and wake up with a clearer mind.
I went to bed pissed, but woke up really pissed of.
I’m not a fan of owner interference especially when it involves the Johnson’s but Woody needs to get this coaching staff straightened out.
After the 2022 season, knowing that Rodgers could be available set in motion the Grand Plan.
After supposedly interviewing numerous offensive coordinators, by some magical process, it was decided that Hackett was the most qualified OC.
Baldy and JD to put their master plan in motion used Hackett like the carrot on a stick to attract Rodgers.
Rodgers never asked for Hackett to be here, because Baldy and JD had already hired him( WE ALL KNOW THE REST)
Woody Johnson needs to have a meeting with Baldy and JD and demand, not ask nicely, but demand them to fire Hackett.
If Saleh or JD push back with some rhetorical nonsense, then Woody HAS to say if you won’t get rid of him, then resign. Because one way or another, Hackett is not only a coaching disaster but also a PR disaster.
At this point, does any reader here actually believe that if Woody fired Saleh and Hackett, it would hurt the team. Make Middleton, Oden or Whitecotton the interim HC. Make Downing the OC. The fact Ulbrich talked to SF this offseason to be their DC, sorts of shows his loyalty
If it pisses Rodgers off, so what, he’s an employee and part of yesterday’s disaster
Many fans paid hard earned money to sit through that disaster yesterday, Woody’s loyalty should be reserved for them not Hackett or Saleh.
It think it might cause more issues than it'd solve. This team, honestly, would be better off had Rodgers retired or gone away. From what we know, Rodgers is the reason Hackett is around, and this team has so much capital invested in Rodgers, they have to do everything they can to make him a happy camper. It'd have been better if he'd have just retired or if he got some silly non-football injury, like insanity from too much ayuasca. I think that, then, they'd be more inclined to get rid of Hackett, promote Downing, and provide more consistency to this team. I don't think this is Saleh protecting Hackett. Remember...Saleh's preferred coordinator was the guy he handpicked who, in turn, was hung out to dry by being paired with a project quarterback and no veteran alternative.
I think it is possible there is some Douglas hitching his wagon to Rodgers in all of this, but I always got the impression that Woody was the one insisting on Rodgers, not Douglas (and definitely not Saleh).
That rub between them will feed the haters is the problem. Hopefully Jets make you proud in London next week, David.
I was really looking forward to it...now I'm hoping we don't get embarrassed.
I have a solution for next weeks game David. Try to find a Jet and a Viking Darnold Jersey. Cut both equally in half then stitch a right half Jet Jersey to a left half Viking Jersey. People will think That you are a Darnold fan. The Kelce’s mother got away with it. If you suffer, you will suffer in silence.
I don’t agree with any of the Darnold comments he did not leave the Jets and become an immediate success, it took multiple years and multiple teams for him to find some success. Would the torch and pitchfork brigade had the patience for that to develop. I think not. NFL teams change OC’s during the season or at least change who calls the plays the Jets need to make that change yesterday, this team with all the talent can’t be allowed to fail. I believe I could motivate this team better than the current regime.
I would have endorsed that patience. Then again, I also thought that they should've kept Darnold, skipped on drafting a quarterback, brought in Jacoby Brissett to compete with Darnold, and spent a little extra dough on the offensive line. Also, don't draft the touched-by-god physically gifted offensive lineman with major weight problems. Essentially, they should've provided Mike LaFleur with a veteran quarterback to learn his offense.
First I missed most of the game yesterday due to clean up from hurricane Hellene and the fact that I had to repair my own internet cable because Xfinity was too busy to get to it. I only saw about the last 7 minutes but that was enough for me see know I was better off not seeing it. I always try to be positive in my posts but can’t find anything positive to say. I will agree with David, when your defense only allows 10 points you should win, even if the defense played bad the offense should and must put up more then 9 points to win against any team.